So he's guilty because he's been implicated and KG Jr. is innocent because he hasn't been (yet)? Nice. They've been through court proceedings for years already on Bonds and they still can't prove a thing! Sorry to hurt your feelings but Griff is as guilty as Bonds at this point... but here's the kicker, neither is as guilty as A-ROD!!!! :lol:
I'm surprised by all the no's. Did everyone forget how good Griffey was? He absolutely was the best player of the last 20 years. Injuries aside
So your reasoning for Griff being guilty is what? your gut? And I am a Bonds fan of sorts as personally I don't give a damn who takes steroids, but at least with Bonds has something out there period about him taking steroids, the saying when there is smoke there is fire only applies if there is smoke to speak of, just saying he is playing during the steroid era isn't enough.
Griffey before the injuries and before he left seattle was incredible. I remember the sport center commerials where there was like "Never Iffy when its griffy" with home runs. He was a complete ball player hit for average, power #s were great in prime and could play the field and was fast. He also was a proflicactic base stealer
Greatest player doesn't mean greatest HR hitter, he was a stone in most of his later years and I think Griffey was better in Defense for his career, and Griffey was much better than Henderson. Now if the question was most terrifying hitter, Bonds was the most terrifying hitter in the history of baseball
The point is you can't make a legit case against Bonds simply because there is nothing on him. The same logic you apply to Griff. So given that, how is Griff better then Bonds? I like Griff, I really do... but better then Bonds or Henderson? No way.
So make your case... how is he better then Bonds or Henderson, both of which are top 10 all time talents. Admitedly it'll be tough to compare Rickey because his skill set and longevity is so unique but Bond blows his numbers away.
There is a difference between a legal case of law and having a logical opinion, and the case wasn't about him whether he took steroids or not, it was him knowingly taking the stuff is what they have to prove. As to whether Griffey was better or not, his prime was the best that I have ever seen when he was healthy although it is close so I can go either way but there is no comparison who is better between Griffey and Henderson other than speed and a small edge in OBP there isn't even a comparison in terms of every other aspect of the game.
Rickey Henderson revolutionized the game... he is the best lead off hitter ever. He is by far and away the biggest offensive threat on the base-paths the game has ever seen, whether it's stealing bases or generating runs... what is Griffey the best ever at? Nothing. Again it's admittedly hard to compare these two (Henderson and Griff) because of the different styles... but comparing Griff to Bonds is not even close.... it's not just the HR's.
I am not basing it off of longevity but primes of their careers, for Henderson sure he was the greatest leadoff hitter, like I said Henderson had speed but other than that nothing is even remotely comparable to Griffey
Manny blows him away too. And Frank Thomas. In OBP, SLG, and OPS+ so does Jim Thome. Really so does A-Rod. Other than total HR, Piazza has better numbers. It hasn't been for as long, but Pujols is destroying all of them. He is among the best, but no way is he at the top.
My logical opinion tells my Griff had a lot of injuries that are consistent with steroid use and that is one of the reasons I'm suspicious. He's suspect like the rest of them in my opinion. And for the record they have not been able to prove Bonds took drugs knowingly or otherwise... you guys need to get your heads around that. Your comparison to Henderson is not fair IMO. Saying other then speed is like saying other then power for Griff... speed is the basis of Rickey's game and the defining skill of his career, much like power is for Griff. You can't take a guys greatest ability out of the equation. Rickey is a top 25 player all time.... Griff isn't there yet, though he could be... Bonds is top 10.
I don't care what Bonds was on. Just look at these numbers: .515, .582, .529 , 609 . That would make up four pretty solid seasons for a power hitting type, if the stat was slugging percentage. But it's OBP. Hiseach year from '01-'04. In 2004, Barry Bonds reached base 60% of the the time in '04. There are top 5 draft picks who are considered studs, that don't have that kind of dominance in high school. During that four year period, his park adjusted OPS was 158% better than league average, And what A-Rod did during his years at a traditionally light hitting position, also probably surpasses Junior did. Steroids or not, Junior would never have approached what Bonds, A-Rod, or Pedro did during between 1990 and 2005. He may have been the most exciting player in the game for awhile, but he wasn't the best.
While it may be unfair, speed is only one aspect of the game which is why I stated all around best not just best in one aspect. As for your statement about Griffey's injuries when you play in the outfield until your old it is likely that the 1st things to go are the legs, that is just the way it happens in baseball. Are you going to state that every injury prone player was on steroids, remember even Jose Reyes had a lot of injuries to his legs early on, doesn't mean it was caused by steroids. And like I stated before I could care less who was juicing. Bonds in his sworn testimony said he may have not knowingly took steroids, your statement of the case not convicting Bonds and saying Bonds didn't take steroids are entirely 2 different statements.
Those OBPs were inflated due to all the walks that they gave him in those years since he was the only one remotely close to great in that lineup his 1st 2 years were pretty legit with the OBP but the last 2 years he was in a joke of a lineup around him, when you mention SS as traditionally light, CF hits traditionally pretty light as well and if you go "steroids" era SS ain't as light hitting as they used to be. As for statement it is your opinion but I'd say that 1993-2000 stretch that Griffey pulled off were up there with the most dominant in baseball history.
I'm also surprised by the amount of no's. If not for injuries Griffey would have approached the HR record, and his defense was incredible in his prime. IMO he was the best all around player of the 90's. Then again, I don't give a shit about steroid use... and I don't totally discredit what Bonds and ARod have done.
Where did I say anything even remotely close to "every injury prone player was on steroids"? If you don't care about juicing what's the knock on Bonds and what part of Griff's career do you compare to 2000-04 Bonds or even 1990-94 Bonds? It's not even close IMO. Griff had an amazing run in his 20's... amazing, but what he's done in his 30's is not that impressive. Henderson has an MVP, 2 WS rings, +3000 hits, all time records in runs and sb's, and for all his power Griff's OBP is only 100 points higher then Ricky's... there's an argument for Ricky too.
