Ok, you clearly don't understand statistics in any way. His 3rd time through splits are ABSOLUTELY "something to brag about" since they are better than league average! But whatever, I'm done having this discussion with someone who just admitted that they were going on reputation rather than performance. If you want to panic because Penny had a bad start tonight and you want to pull for Smoltz because gosh darn it he's a Hall of Famer then go nuts. I think I'll stay in touch with reality, and the reality is that overall Penny has outperformed Smoltz this year by any objective measure.
penny has been a right arm injury machine since he left the marlins (and to an extent with the marlins). i can pull up his injury history if you want. again, my point is I want penny gone. i would like smoltz out of the rotation too, in the bullpen perhaps.
Penny is also more than a decade younger and despite any injuries he's had is still throwing 96-98 with regularity. I know you want Penny gone, but that's a dumb opinion. He's been everything you need out of a 5th starter and the numbers certainly back that up.
This might be the stupidest question ever posed, but I guess I'll bite. Obviously Hamels because he's 25 and has shown that he can be a frontline starter. Marquis is having a career year but he's 30 and has basically been somewhere between crap and average for his career. I know what you're trying to do but this is a retarded comparison. Any team given the choice between the two would take Hamels.
no no, it's about winning this year. it's not about age or anything. it's about the 2009 STRETCH DRIVE. which is why the argument started
obviously for this argument age can't be a concern. smoltz and penny are both not in our future plans, so in this hypothetical, neither are hamels or marquis. SO, given the choice to have either for the 2009 stretch drive only, who would it be?
It's retarded is what it is. You can't just ignore the future. If you asked me if I'd rather have Hamels or a 25 year old with Marquis' numbers then yes, I'd pass on Hamels. But given the choice between Hamels and Marquis I would take Hamels, and so would any GM in baseball.
one of us is misreading stats because I'm seeing his OPS+ at the 3rd PA is worse than league average.
It's you. That number at the end isn't even OPS+ and if you bothered to look at it it indicates that anything below 100 for a pitcher is better than average.
Yeah, I think Smoltz needs to go back to the pen. He's not an effective starter anymore. He and Penny are two acquisitions that definitely did not work out.
Would you disregard hamels' career numbers prior to 2009 before making a decision on taking him or a 25 year old who magically put up marquis numbers, where there was no prior indication he was capable of that.
You posted from Baseball Reference in another thread so I assume it's the same thing I'm looking at. Probably not, but I would consider it infinitely more than I would consider your first proposal. There's also a huge difference between Hamel and Smoltz which is the main reason you can't logically make this comparison. Smoltz is at the very end of his career while Hamels is just starting his. This typically means that Hamels (or any young pitcher) is likely to get better while Smoltz (or any old pitcher) has their best days well behind them. I don't care as much about Hamels' past seasons because his future seasons are where his value is. Marquis doesn't figure to have any future seasons better than this, so the only value he has is right now. When evaluating the two, Hamels' value going forward is much greater than Marquis'.
I don't see how anyone can say Penny didn't work out. From the start of May heading into tonight's start he posted a 3.92 ERA over 15 starts and averaged just under 6 innings a start. He gave up more than 3 runs just twice in that span. I don't know what you people expect from a 5th starter, but that's perfectly acceptable. Even with his terrible April he's still right about league average for the year. He definitely worked out.
