1) lets be realistic websetr was never close nor will he ever be close to what revis is. and also he will never be asked to do as much as revis. webster never has 1 on 1 coverage with no safety help for most of a game and shuts down elite WRs like TO, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings, Andre Johnson, Etc. 2) Webster is an average CB he doesn't suck by any means but he isn't that good either. he asked to play zones and does a good job at it but he isn't blowing anyone out of the water with his play 3) I'm sorry but thomas sucks. seriously. He reminds me of lito shepard for the jets last year. physical and handsy (he gets away with alot of PI) but no speed to keep up with anyone and no technique. he does play the run well though i'll give him taht 4) Revis is very athletic and fast but he is a small guy relativly. cro doens't have teh skills or tech of revis but he is one of teh most physically gifted CBs in the NFL so it helps him out. they make a nice pair 5) your safeties aren't that good at all. rolle got kicked off of arizona for a jets reject in kerry rhodes, phillips is mr potential but never mr good play guy. all i hear is how he's so physical gifted and has potential yet i never see any of it on the field. and he gets injured alot. grant is solid but he's old and on teh downside of his career. The jets safeties aren't taht good either i admit. pool hasn't done shit and leonhard is too small to cover TEs and eric smith is too slow to cover anyone. we have 4 physical safties who can play the run and none who can play the pass well. I think both teams need help at safety I don't think the giants suck by any means. i think they are an average team. nothing worse nothing better. With that said i disagree with the DTs. you say depth but that's unfair since the jets play a 3-4 so they had 3 DTs to start the season (2 now) and the giants have 4-5 since they play 2 on every play so of course the depth will be better. the same reason the jets have 8 LBers to the giants 5-6 LBers. Cofield and canty are very solid DTs but i think pohua is better (and mind you we had jenks but he got hurt who is also better) the DEs are no contest we agree on that. osi and tuck is way better then ellis and devito. The LBer boley is no good. Vicks rushing TD and mccoys 50+ yarder on 4th down were both blown assignments on boley. on the vick play he had outside containment and went for the fake inside and let vick outside. same on the mccoy run. Also vick's WRs dropped 2 TDs so the score could have been way worse, just saying. Boley is fast but tahst about all. he's small and weak for a LBer (he's built more like a safety really) and is not a good football player. There is a reason ATL didn't want him anymore. Bullock is old and done, sintim hasn't shown anything good, Goff i don't know how he is even starting in the NFL. Your LBers are bad. The giants know it and targeted Mcclain but Oakland took him and he is a beast in the middle. Also depth at CB? Ross your nickle back is a 1st round bust, and who is your dime back? you use a safety as a dime back due to lack of CBs. oh and you signed the DB we cut in training camp. how do you have better depth?
You trying to make me an argumentative twat, like you? Won't work.... Hey by stating that at least you are not a coward any longer......and you should take your own advice since you are always right.....
I was actually trying to play along with it. So maybe it was I who was over YOUR head! Oh snap! Did I just blow your mind?
I am sorry this is the internet joking around isn't allowed nor is humor. I have to run my wife is ovulating. BTW.....If you were joking it was over my head....nice
1. I said Webster was on par with Revis in 2008, that's why I typed AT THAT TIME in all caps. Revis is the best corner in the league now and it's silly to argue otherwise. It's almost altruistic of you to even respond to anything I post if you think I'm that dumb. Webster has been put on the island in the past and has succeeded. However the Giants only put him in this situation if they know he's up to the task. He'll shut down Santana Moss or Roy Williams without much trouble; Desean Jackson is another story. 2. It is NOT accurate to say Webster is a zone corner. He struggled in zone early in his career because his specialty at LSU was bump and run; he's not quite athletic enough to play off and then break on the ball. I think I'm seeing more and more of a fairly ridiculous bias as you elaborate on your reasoning. To say that Thomas sucks is just like before when you said Webster plays zone; it's inaccurate and wrong. Thomas is a physical press corner with good technique. He has long arms, like Cromartie, and this helps him stay on top of WRs. He lacks the speed and athletic ability of Cromartie & compensates by being more physical and technically sound. Just like Webster, he lacks great speed. That is the weakness the Giants starting CBs have that the Jets don't. You're disregarding everything else they do well and seem to be doing so with only emotion or opinion. I'm doing my best to view this comparison from a neutral point of view; I don't think you're doing the same. 5. I'm skipping to this point because it's beyond ridiculous to say the Giants don't have talented safeties. Again, I think you're letting your feelings as a fan override your logic as an observer. Rolle is a very athletic safety with lots of range; he's an effective blitzer and can play man coverage quite well too. He's used as a rover of sorts as Fewell likes to take advantage of his speed and athletic ability. Phillips was hurt LAST YEAR, he hasn't missed a game this year. I don't think you watch Giants' games very closely if you don't see how Phillips is used to allow Rolle to roam. He's either put in the box to let Rolle roam or plays deep so Rolle can be used to blitz or cover back. He's an excellent hitter and plays with good range and coverage ability. I don't really know what you're basing your negative opinion of him on other than the fact that he was injured nearly all of last year. In regards to Rolle, you're wrong about him being "replaced" by Rhodes for two reasons. The first is that the Cardinals actually offered Rolle a contract worth a potential 2 million more than the Giants did, but Rolle had misgivings about the organization their after how they handled contract situations with Dansby (franchising him 2X after promising they wouldn't and ultimately letting him go) and Boldin (promising to give him more money, not, taking money Fitzgerald offered to keep him happy, then finally trading him). Ask a Cardinal fan if Rhodes is a replacement for Rolle. By your logic they brought in Joey Porter to replace Karlos Dansby. You're just being silly. Rolle leaving hurt that Arizona secondary a lot and Rhodes has done little to fill the void he left. The second part of your post I disagree with in MANY different areas, but here goes nothing... 1. We can argue as to whether the Giants are an average team or a good team all we want, I"m pretty sure I know what your stance will be and that it won't change. I think the Giants are a very good team that is, at the moment, playing average due to extensive injuries. I believe they will play at a high level (as they did just a few weeks ago when they were considered one of the best teams in the NFC) once the 3 injured OL and 2 starting WR return. 2. Jenkins is probably the best DT on either team. but at this point you have to consider his age and durability. You yourself pointed out how Bullock is old, so it's only fair to consider Jenkins age as well. I just don't see how you can say that Pouha is a better DT than Canty or Cofield. He plays the run better, I'll readily concede that because he's a nose tackle and that's his sole function. Canty and Cofield are better at collapsing the pocket, sniffing out screens, and moving up and down the line of scrimmage. They're more versatile defensive lineman because the 4-3 system they play in demands it. 3. I believe you're making the same mistake everyone makes with Boley and looks at his weight as it is listed on nfl.com. He came in to the league at 230 but plays at nearly 250 now. He's aggressive against the run and usually disciplined in his run defense. You saw his worst game of the season against Philly and, frankly, it wouldn't surprise if you hadn't seen him play beyond that. He's a strong blitzer in addition to being a good coverage LB, the Giants brought him in to add athletic ability to the group. I'd love to hear how he's "a bad football player." Again, you're just offering your own opinions and not using any facts. Bullock is a stop-gap and Sintim is playing out of position (as I mentioned in my previous post, I think he would be better suited as a 3-4 OLB) but I would love to know what you see in Goff that makes you think he doesn't belong in the league. He's a thumper whom plays very physically, fills his run gaps with attitude, and sets the defense. He's also surprisingly adept in coverage. I think you're (again) arguing with opinion and emotion; I'm not seeing any facts.
Part 2.... How is Aaron Ross a bust exactly? He was injured nearly all of last year and, due to that, was demoted to nickel. He's been playing very well at nickel as it takes advantage of his athletic prowess while not exposing his occasionally sloppy technique to the scrutiny reserved for a starting corner. He's also physical enough to be used as a a safety and at times an LB. This was part of the gameplan against Philly and it was that defensive performance by the Giants that gave the Bears the blueprint for how to beat Vick. We use our 3rd safety to play our #4 CB spot as Fewell likes the physical play this brings to the field. The DB the Giants signed off the Jets practice squad only plays special teams. Again, you're not using anything factual to make your argument. Look, if you just don't have a high opinion of the Giants as a team and have no real interest in changing that opinion that's fine; just let me know so I don't waste my time debating with you. I think the Jets do have the better defense as it is more consistent and, to be honest, I like Ryan as a defensive mind more than I like Fewell. Just because the Jets defense is better, however, doesn't mean that the Giants defense sucks or is only serviceable due to their pass rush. I don't care if you like the Giants or not; just let me know if you're going to respect them enough for us to have a discussion worth having.
Aaron Ross isn't a bust. Ross's problem is who he is logically compared to, Revis and Hall. You know the history, they were drafted in 07' and were considered 1-2-3 as far as CB prospects. With that comparison, I think you are going to have a difficult time arguing for Ross on this site. Any other site would be a lot easier...lol He is a decent player, he just has an all world player and another allstar as a benchmark. I have to admit when I see Ross I think about how he was drafted pretty close to Revis and Hall. I am not saying it's right but that it happens.
I'm trying to understand how this awesome defense allows nearly 40% more points per game, 30% more yards per carry and 15% more yards per pass and can be said to be better than the Jets? Is it that they've got one less takeaway? Color me confused.
Because they SACK THE QUARTERBACK. Don't you get it? If you don't sack the QB your defense sucks. Points are irrelevant.
He's easily the worst of the 3 taken in that first round, but I don't think you can say he's a finished product. Keep in mind he's supposed to have great punt returning skills (something I've wanted Coughlin to use him as for sometime) but I don't think his coverage skills have improved to the level everyone wanted. Having said all that, I don't think it should be too hard for people to look at him and say "he's good, not great but certainly not terrible." If I was saying anything threatening to blemish Revis' reputation I can imagine what I'd be up against, but considering the conservative assertion I'm trying to make, I'm kind of surprised I'm having such a difficult time with it.
First i'm calling things as i see them, if you don't agree thats fine but don't call it biased. 1) webster was never on pace with revis ever. webster was drafted 2 years before revis so your saying in his 4th year he was on pace with revis in his 2nd year? (oh and revis was a pro bowler in 2008 btw) webster can't even be mentioned in the same breath as revis at any point and time. revis as a rookie was still better then webster is event to this day. Also your case for webster is he can cover dallas 3rd WR by himself? really thats your case? r moss (i assume you mean santana since sinorice was a failed giants draft pick) and i doubt he can cover even a 33 year old moss at this point. webster isn't good enough in man coverage. why do you think your pass D was so horrible last year? with phillips down you had no decent safties. you had micheal johnson, aaron rouse, and cc brown. and they weren't good enough to help out your CBs that kept getting beat. This year with the better safeties you had then last year they are helping make up for your CBs lack of ability to cover. If you think they magically improved form last year your being biased. there being covered better by the pass rush and better safety play 2) your wrong on rolle by far. please check your facts before trying to say i'm wrong http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4954227 There is a link. The cards cut him. also the cards had him next to a pro bowl safety (wilson) and stud CB (rodger-cromartie) and yet had the 31st ranked pass D. rolle constantly got burned. Also remember he failed at CB and got moved to safety for lack of speed and cover skills. the giants use him alot better then arizona did , but rolle is not that good of a safety at all. and phillips is just potential. his rookie season he only started 3 games, his 2nd season he started 2 then got hurt and now his 3rd season he has played in all 11 but really what has he done? 5 passes defensed, 1 pick, 0 FF, 0 Sacks 43 solo tackles. How is that a stud player? 3) I've seen boley play since his ATL days. he was never more then a journeyman LBer and that is all he is to this day. I watch teh jets and giants every week as well as 3-4 other games. I watch probably 6 games a week every week but always watch the jets and giants (and usually watch the jets giants multiple times) he is an average LBer. but I see him get pushed around in the run game play after play. seriously just watch him and focus on him and you'll see him getting blown up every play. He's good in coverage with his speed but shouldn't be an every down backer 4) i'll get to your other comments later. its alot to break down and i want to take my time and get the answers correct
Webster did have a great 2008 season. Not close to Revis' in 2009, but it was close to Revis in 2008.
Well, holy shit, I've been watching football all wrong. I thought when the ball got in the endzone that was good for the offense and bad for the defense. After all these years, I now understand that knocking the QB down when he has the ball is what wins games. No wonder Rapelisberger is awesome.
Hey, glad I could help bro. You aren't the only one, a lot of people have the same misconception of how football games are won and lost. A couple of other things you may not be privy to - if you win games on the last play or come from behind to win it doesn't really count as a victory. It's only partial credit. Also, points scored by the offense MUST be recorded by your quarterback passing the ball to a receiver in the end zone. No other method of scoring is actually legit. If you score on special teams or with any type of trickeration, it's actually negative points.
I'd trade our DL for theirs any day, wiseass. And if you examine my post more carefully, you'll find I'm quite content with the state of our defense.
i still like our DTs better. but i'd trade our DEs in a heartbeat. give me kiwi, osi, and tuck and they can have ellis, ghost, and devito lol
Yeah I agree I love Pouha but for the sake of nitpicking I just said 'DL'. No idea why JetFaninMD is so offended by my acknowledging the Giants D is solid.
Well I mean if Webster can shut down Sinorice Moss or Roy no hands Williams he must be the second coming of Revis Christ.
