Blaming Sanchez for the offensive problems = lack of football knowledge. Watch the games where Tom Brady has been successful... against the Jets in particular. When he's picking apart our defense, he isn't gracefully water dancing his way through the pocket before finding his target... in fact he's practically standing still. That's right, when our defense doesn't get to Brady he is absolutely unstoppable. However, when the defense actually consistently gets to him and disrupts the pocket... he plays like shit and the Patriots lose! Go back and watch all the recent Jets Patriots matchups... the Jets winning was directly related to collapsing the pocket and disrupting the Patriots offense. What we've seen for two straight weeks so far is the Jets offense being disrupted through pass rush and penalties. Until they get their shit together and begin playing like professional football players the whole offense will suck and that is not Sanchez's fault. I'm not giving him any credit because as of right now he deserves none and that interception WAS awful... but without the offensive line giving him a chance to succeed he'll have 0 chance and so will any other QB they put back there.
Let's see what you have to say after Osi and JPP got done raping you all game long - on every play, immediately after snap.
so rb's not being able to pick up 3&1 and 4&1 is sanchez's fault? and thats not an excuse thats reality, everyone needs to perform better not just sanchez.
Some fans are sad as fuck! Did u not notice the pressure in Sanchez' face immediately after the snap? JPP was man handling WFH all night long. Not once, not twice, but every snap. Besides that, Sanchez didn't have two of his top three WRs. And a RT my grandma can walk by. Add a few drive killing penalties and you have a perfect recipe for a disastrous, meaningless pre season game. Giants couldn't do shit against our D. Guess why? Cuz it was full strength.
The Sanchez haters are either trolls or very stupid. I guess either way they are very stupid, since only a very stupid person would troll another team's board. Anyone that doesn't see how terribly Wayne Hunter is doing right now is blind. Watch the game again, he literally got embarrassed over and over again. Because the Giants D was having such success with a 4-man rush, they had way more players in coverage. That explains the receivers not getting open. The pic was bad, he would have had a completion if he threw slightly earlier because the DB wouldn't have had the angle on the pass, also it was slightly behind. I would say the pic wasn't the worst play in the game by any means.
Here is something to mull over: if it's true that Sanchez led the team to two Championship games, then feel free to blame him for whatever you want...because everything is his fault. By that, of course I mean that neither scenario is even nearly completely accurate in the ultimate team sport. People praise QBs when a team wins too much and lay too much blame on them when the team loses. It's a cliche, but it's true...it's true a great deal of the time, anyway. It's certainly true for average QBs, which is what most QBs are and is what Sanchez has shown he is thus far IMO. Great QBs pick up slack and elevate the play of those around them. They don't make Wayne Hunter great, but they find ways to compensate. Wayne Hunter is bad because he is bad. Of course that's not Sanchez's fault. If the Jets' WR corps is thin, that's their own fault...and of course the person that hired these guys instead of someone else...not Sanchez's. Also, of course any holes in the offense are going to make Sanchez look bad, or at least worse than if all surrounding pieces were perfect, which never happens by the way. Sometimes, you get a better feel of who a person is when he faces adversity rather than having things go his way. Not to be a hump (or Yoda or something), but I think it worth mentioning...at least as a reminder. There is always an excuse to make. Sanchez is under the gun this year for sure. We'll see if he can step up to the plate. People can demonize somebody like Wayne Hunter all they want, deservedly so or not, but Sanchez certainly has his own problems, and it's not always easy to single out those problems from other loose cogs in the wheel. The media was already firing on all cylinders about the Jets before Tebow brought his media circus. Sanchez, if he is to be effective, needs to be more of a leader and shoulder more of the load IMO. It's his 4th year, so I don't know a better time. The special blend of Jets controversy is something to behold this year, I'll tell you that.
People are probably never going to get this, but nobody and I do mean nobody, succeeds in a vacuum. If you look at the great QB's in NFL history there are always other great players around them. Part of the luck of the draw is who you have playing with you. Part of the luck of the draw is who is coaching you. Part of the luck of the draw is who stays healthy around you. Joe Namath had Don Maynard and Emerson Boozer and Matt Snell and a great offensive line for the glory years. He had a strong defense with a bunch of standouts on it. When that started to go away so did Namath's ability to do anything. The knees were a huge part of that because they wiped seasons out of his prime but losing the other great players was also part of that. Ken O'Brien had Freeman McNeill and Al Toon and Mickey Shuler. He had a decent offensive line most years and he had a strong defense supporting him in the years when Klecko was healthy. The injuries piled up for him too and Klecko went away finally and so did O'Brien's ability to do much in the post-season. Vinny Testaverde had a pretty stacked roster to play with also, he just got old in a hurry at an age when most QB's are retired. Chad Pennington had Curtis Martin and Wayne Chrebet and Santana Moss and Laveranues Coles and Richie Anderson and a stacked offensive line. Then the line went soft and Martin retired and Chad Pennington was the opening day QB on two teams that went 4-12. It's who you play with. It's who coaches you. It's the luck of the draw. Mark Sanchez came into a pretty sweet deal. He was a wet-behind-the-ears rookie with one season of NCAA starting experience when he showed up. He got to play with a stacked line, with Thomas Jones and Shonn Greene as the change-of-pace. He got to play with Jerrico Cotchery, one of the most sure-handed receivers and best route runners in the game. He got Braylon Edwards handed to him at mid-season in 2009 and by the end of the year had kinda, sorta figured out how to use him. In 2010 he really knew what Braylon was good at. He had Dustin Keller who was a pretty sure-handed receiver masquerading as a tight end and good up the seams. Then the line lost a guy, then another guy. Those guys weren't replaced at the same level. He lost Thomas Jones and Shonn Greene never picked up the slack, staying a change-of-pace guy while the Jets lacked a mainstay. LaDainian Tomlinson came in and surprised everybody at 31, having a pretty good season. He was supposed to be the 3rd down guy and change of pace back but since Greene couldn't pull the weight he became the main guy. Santonio Holmes showed up as reinforcements but a year later he lost Cotchery and Edwards. It's who you play with and who coaches you. You can't do it on your own. Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison sitting there waiting for him as a seasoned vet when he showed up. He shared the backfield with Marshall Faulk his rookie year and Edgerrin James for the next half decade. He had Dallas Clark handed to him on a silver platter. He had Reggie Wayne gifted to him just as Harrison was declining. Reggie Wayne caught 75 balls last year at the age of 33 with Curtis Painter at QB! People just aren't going to get this until the next schmuck is standing behind Mangold taking snaps. It doesn't matter who he is if the rest of the offense is allowed to go to seed. You're not going to the hall of fame with a pedestrian set of skill players around you and a line with huge holes. I don't care if your name is Tom Montana Manning. You ain't going anywhere if you're not given the tools to be great. And BTW I have no idea if Mark Sanchez has greatness in him or not but I do know that we're never going to find out the answer to that question when he doesn't have enough talent around him to get off the ground. If Peyton Manning had been drafted in David Carr's place in 2002 and taken 76 sacks that first year he'd be backing up Eli on the Giants right now without anybody ever knowing how good he could be if given a few great players to play with.
As others pointed out...wtf? NO one is touting Sanchez as an elite QB or on the level of Tom Brady, but this teams identity is running the football and a great defense. Sanchez suits that. He is great at the Play action, and has a good deep ball. I mean you're furious right now but I'm still pretty sure Sanchez had better stats than Eli manning in that game (yet again, not sure). I'm not saying he's on Eli manning but the way this kid has been treated in grooming a QB is atrocious. He has a phenomonal post-season rating, his WR's are CONSTANTLY being changed, and for every play, he is basically facing a defender in his face before he can count to three thanks to WFH. Like I said, he's basically an average QB but he's also going through a lot of struggles. It's pathetic how poorly the FO has been in protecting him and giving him weapons to work with. Do you really think our problem as an offense is because he's not "rallying" his team mates? really? That's what you believe? That's the cause of the inadequacies of the offense? Lack of talent is what is holding back the offense. Poor receivers, EXTREMELY poor o-line, bad play calling. Mark Sanchez is not the reason we're doing poorly. He's holding his own. He's average. but he is not holding this team back, either.
I agree 100% besides the David Carr comment at the end. He does need some weapons too. Alot of personnel on this offense is very overrated by alot fans and the front office. It would be nice we could trade or draft for some kind of game breaker on offense but Rex is too in love with his defense and he doesnt care if his offense sucks. It would make things a whole hell of alot easier if we could find an elite WR or elite RB. There is just too much wishful thinking in the later round offensive picks in hopes they hit the jackpot and they turn into something great.
The way people use the words "mediocre" and "average" around here... whoa. It's like every player is "great," "good," or "average." Sorry, no. Essentially, half the players in the league are below-average. If Tebow has a mediocre NFL arm, then which QB has a "poor" arm? Lets be real.
The OL is even worse than last year, hence, this thread is pointless. He's been working with his 2 and 4 wr at 1 aand2. One of them being a rookie. Nobody is getting open downfield, hence the dink and dunk. And he's getting sacked at a david carr texans meltdown rate. Brady would look pedestrian in this offense as it stands You guys can make all the "analysis" you want ut it doesn't matter who you have at the skill positions when you don't have an OL
The most difficult thing about Sanchez ... is that there isn't enough information to judge his performance. Constant pressure + RB quality isn't that good + TE that can't block & slow down or chip to help Hunter + inexperienced WR = disaster for anyone lining up behind Mangold. Would Sanchez be ready to carry this offense talent around him was upgraded? Maybe. Unfortunately, there's just no way to pass judgement on what he's capable of. === If this pre-season performance carries into the regular season then Rex/Tanny deserve a lot of heat. They got rid of Shotty (and kept the QB coach) but they failed to add anything substantive to the offensive side of the ball - except for a rookie WR. They basically went into this season stating, this offense is just fine & only the OC needs to be changed. This season we'll see if Rex/Tanny were right.
Why isn't anybody calling DeGuglielmo out? He been going around saying WFH is his man and for as long as he's here he's going to be the starting RT. "Until they tell me otherwise, until they ship him out of this building or until they shoot me dead in my office, that son-of-a-gun is going to be the starting right tackle. And he's going to play well." (Dave DeGuglielmo) Does this man have any idea what he's saying OR doing as an Oline coach?
But that part IS true as well. You can blame Sanchez this, Sanchez that but, for the record, Peyton Manning never took the amount of hits Sanchez took in his entire career. I am talking about sacks, mind you. (QB hits are usually in the vicinity of sacks x2, if not more; Sanchez was sacked 39 times last year, and was hit some ungodly 78 times.) Manning was sacked 56 times in his first three years; that's about 18 sacks +@ a year. (One sack a game, and two every once in a blue moon.) Sanchez? 92. (That's almost 2 sacks a game.) Of course he wasn't rocked like David Carr ever was. (Other than the injury-shortened 2nd season, he was shelled big time. 76/49/68/41. Not exactly sexy protection.) But you know the protection Sanchez had is not really the top-of-the-line protection either. This breakdown also shows that, Tom Brady in first three years was borderline mediocre quarterback too. (taking sacks 41/31/32 times - his QBR was fittingly mired in the middle of 80's. Just like Sanchez.) He starts showing improvements when the sacks go under 30. ------------------------------------------------------------ It's quite easy to point to the QB and say he sucks, but when you have no protection, the QB can't do much. (Thanks, WFH.)
"I wanted Wayne Hunter, so the last thing I would ever want to see happen is not have Wayne Hunter as the starting right tackle," DeGuglielmo said. "He’s big, he's athletic, he’s aggressive, he's a smart guy, he practices at top speed, he practices physical, he pays attention to detail. Everything you give him to do on the field, he does it, and he does it naturally." (Dave DeGuglielmo) Sorry but this is cause for immediate dismissal... The man obviously knows nothing about judging Oline talent. His desk should be cleared out by lunchtime today.
Again, some significant percentage of those sacks were on Sanchez. He holds the ball too long and is not good getting it out under pressure. On the metric that does not depend so much on how long the Qb holds the ball, which is Qb hits, the Jet OL did much better than the Sanchez Apologists will ever acknowledge. Talk about hits instead of sacks and your argument loses most of its power.
my god you're such a clown...I'll give you one 'play'... the come back drive vs Houston in 2010. I'll let you pretend to be a fan and research the rest of them.
You know. I really want to see one metric from any football stat sites. You know what that is? QB's time standing up in the pocket. People crow about Sanchez holding the ball too long all the time, but I actually want to know how long Sanchez actually holds the ball in average. Last time I checked, he never held the ball longer than 3 seconds. (That is, either the ball got out, or got sacked by 3 second mark, if that long. Usually in the vicinity of 2 second mark. In case of some horrible sacks, less than 2 seconds.) As opposed to Brady, Manning and Brees; they do get the ball out quickly more often than not, but when the play is not there, do they "throw away" all the time? No. They hang on to the ball, go through the progression and throw most of the time. (Believe it or not, taking sack works better for your completion ratio, than throwing away. And Sanchez had lower completion % while they had higher %. Go figure.) I even saw Brady holding onto the ball deep into 5 seconds. Sanchez? I have yet to see him hold on to the ball 4 seconds, let alone 5. Usually it's 2~3 second matter. If holding on to the ball for a split second more is to blame as "holding on to the ball way too long" then just how in the world do you explain the other QBs doing just as the same, and much, much more? (And I am not Sanchez apologist, mind you. If the QB takes shellacking like Sanchez does, he is set up for a failure. Whatever blame you place on Sanchez, I am more than certain you can apply to David Carr in his early days at Texans.)
The guys that hold the ball the longest right now are Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers. They run around as much as they have to back there until somebody gets open. Ok, now Sanchez has been coached since the day he hit his first mini-camp to stay in the pocket. The Jets wanted a pocket passer, since that's what Schotty's offense called for. Can't have the receivers breaking off their routes and coming back to help out, which is something that happens all the time for Roethlisberger and Rodgers. Tony Romo is another guy who takes off when he has too. When Sanchez does this he gets Matt Cavanaugh in his ear about the happy feet. even when he's successful.
