Cro doesn't come off as real life intelligent if you hear him speak so maybe he is the opposite of Coleman? There was a pregame celebration in the stadium where most of the guys showed up.
Good List Love the first two and Chad. I would add Clark Gaines, Scott Dierking and Dan Alexander. Harper could score so many ways and did often for the Jets. He just took too much of a beating. Mehl I will always remember his two interceptions in that playoff game against the Raiders. He was a smart heady linebacker from linebacker U. Gaines was a good player for us who could run and catch out of the backfield. Dierking was also a tough good runner. Dan Alexander was our best lineman in the late 70's early 80's. A converted defensive lineman from LSU one of the few successful position changes that worked for the Jets.
No Argument On The First Four Never liked McNeil he was always hurt and the only game I remember him being dominate in was the playoff game against Cincy when he ran for over 200 yards. His legacy is taking the NFL to court and getting free agency started. I too was excited about Marvin Jones getting drafted by the Jets but Shade Tree was nothing special and went out with a whimper. Jordan was good for us and lousy after he left thinking he could be the man somewhere else. Not so special. Rhodes was a real ballhawk and was pretty good till Rex came onboard. Thought he could turn him into our version of Ed Reed but Rhodes was distracted by the Hollywood lights and got shipped off. I like Brat and he set the tone for the defense. He played hard for us and was great at taking on blockers and letting others get a free shot at ball carriers. He was a liability on pass defense but the whole team was.
Chrebet played 62 games combined in 95(rookie), and 2000-2002 and had 242 receptions (3.9 per game) and 22 TDs. From 1996-99 Chrebet played in 59 games and had 265 receptions with Keyshawn as his teammate (4.4 per game) and 17 TDs. I didn't use Chrebets numbers from 03-05 since he battled injuries, missed games and was at the end of his career. So looking at the numbers, Chrebet put up extremely similar numbers with Key as he did without him. It's fair to say Chrebet would of been just as productive (or at the least a half a catch per game worse) without Key in the 4 seasons he played with him, since his production was extremely similar in his rookie year and the 3 years after the Keyshawn trade. We will never know for certain what Chrebet's total number of receptions would of been if he never played with Keyshawn, but looking at the facts it's definitely fair to say the difference would be closer to -30 recs than -200 recs.
Except, of course, when the discussion moves to Namath. Then, according to you, the stats tell the entire story. You are so hypocritical at times.
Aaron Glenn was a good player, but he had two major shortcomings. He had horrible hands and couldn't catch a cold, let alone intercept a pass. He also tended to get burned by fast receivers. I still have nightmares of Joey Galloway beating him deep twice in 1998 and that would have been the main reason for a loss if the refs didn't mistake Testaverde's helmet for the ball on the last play of the game.
The careers of Johnson and Chrebet were fairly comparable. Here are their career season averages (excluding the final three years of Chrebet's career when he hardly played because of injuries): Johnson 74 catches 960 yards, 12.9 ypc and 5.8 TDs Chrebet 62 catches 820 yards 13.2 ypc and 5 TDs When you take into account supposed talent, Johnson was a relative disappointment and Chrebet a revelation. When you consider that Johnson played wideout and Chrebet played the slot, it evens these numbers out more, particularly the yards per catch. If I recall, there were numerous season when Johnson was at the bottom in the league in yards after the catch. When you through attitude and personality in there, Chrebet wins hands down. Johnson was egotistical to a fault and overestimated his abilities. He was extremely jealous of Chrebet and publicly and privately called him derogatory names. He wrote a book after ONE NFL season. ONE. And the media is all over Geno Smith????He was traded from the Jets because of outrageous contract demands and all his other BS. He was suspended by Tampa and Gruden in his last year with the team and denied access to team and the locker room. And other than the Jacksonville playoff game, I don't remember Johnson being particularly clutch in big games or big spots. He was TO lite. Meanwhile, Chrebet played his entire career with one team, was the consummate team player and teammate and continually made key catches in big spots. Yes, the stats don't tell the entire story. When you consider the entire story, I'll take Chrebet over Johnson any day. Johnson was undeserving of his draft spot. And considering that he played in the "passing era" his stats make him a good receiver, but there were dozens who played in the same era who were better. Add in how much money Johnson was paid in his rookie contract and his second contract by TB after forcing his way off the Jets with two seasons left on his contract, he was over paid and under performing.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ChreWa00.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnKe00.htm look at the raw stats, you cant drop some and not others. keyshawn was a much better receiver than chrebet, i never thought that anyone would try and deny that.
Chrebet played his last three seasons with concussions. Take them out, as I did, and Johnson was slightly better, but the statistical edge is taken away by his much higher asshole quotient. He was a lousy teammate and a locker room cancer. He was TO before TO. He talked his way off two teams - the Jets and the Bucs.
Regardless of this debate about Key vs. Chrebet, I don't think it's fair to call Chrebet overrated. He is probably one of the most widely loved and most respected Jets in recent history but he deserves that... He played his entire career with the Jets (how often does that happen these days), he was a local kid who played at the same school where the Jets practiced, he was a walk-on, and he was a reliable, durable receiver who sacrificed his body to make big plays time and time again. He never made the big bucks, never demanded the big bucks, and was one of the classiest players around. I don't think people overrate Chrebet as far as comparing him to other star receivers that put up much bigger stats, he just garners a huge amount of respect from fans for the way he played the game. Nothing wrong with that. If anything I agree with those that pointed out the fact that he was overlooked by the rest of the league.
I don't agree with JWWS's strategy of comparing the careers of Key and Wayne after removing three seasons of Chrebet's career whether injured or not, but I also don't agree that Wayne was overrated. The guy was almost automatic on third downs and out-performed corners that were far more athletic than he was years after Key was traded. Did Chrebet benefit from Johnson being on the other side of the field? Yeah, he did. But name all of the other receivers that Key played with post-Jets that really did the things that Wayne was able to do. Jets fans loved the guy. Not just because he was white, although I'm sure that played into it for some fans. But he didn't have great physical talent, he had better focus, concentration and technique that most receivers in the league and it is why he was so valuable, and appreciated so much by Jets fans. He overachieved for years. People around the league give Wes Welker mounds of credit for doing the same thing with a QB that is 1000 times better than anything Chrebet had to work with. Call Wes Welker overrated, I dare you.
I love when you guys have no idea what you are talking about./ Where have I ever said stats tell us everything about Namath? QBs are judged on 2 things, WINNING and #s. Joe had NEITHER! he had one SB run where he needed one playoff win to get to the SB(and played a home game against a team that beat NYJ and had a better record PLUS they had to play a one game playoff), other than that he never won another playoff game and led us to the playoffs just one more time. if he had the #s he ended up w/ and we made a couple of SBs, won a bunch of playoff games, were contenders a bunch of years then that is different or if his #s were so spectacular that you couldn't ignore them then maybe but he didn't have #s and he didn't have wins so explain to me how I am just using #s? I get you don't have much of an argument so you have to attack the poster rather than the facts but you are better than that. Just looking at blind stats w/o context. other than the Jacksonville game where he had an all time great postseason game? what postseason game was Chrebet great in? By the way, Key had a great game in the SUPER BOWL for TB. The passing era came about at the tail end of Key's career so he didn't play in the passing era. key was a million times better than Wayne, they weren't close. wayne was at his best when key was getting all the attention, Wayne put up #s but was never the same player after Key left. We had to pas a million times in 2000 so he put up his best #s year in situations where we were trialing big and teams were trying to protect leads. It's funny, everyone bashes Key for the 2000 game where Chrebet scored the GW TD but everyone fails to remember Chrebet did nothing all day except for that TRICK PLAY which fooled TB. Paying Chrebet in 2002 cost us keeping a much better, younger WR in laveranues Coles after the 2002 season. if we didn't overpay wayne we would have been able to keep Coles and Coles & Moss would have made for a dynamic duo for a few years. Key was banged up and held on for too long at the end of his career too. we don't need #s to know who was the much better WR. Unfortunately yahoo doesn't have the old season splits for Wayne and key but numerous times I posted and Key had more 3rd down recs, a higher % and a higher 1st down conversion %. The perception was that Wayne was mr. 3rd down but Key was better. Key vs. Wayne is all about perception w/ the "loud mouth" vs. the "good guy". Wayne did have great physical talent, very underrated physical talent. the only area he lacked was height. he was very quick, deceptively fast and very strong. Wes Welker is the most overrated player in the game today, he doesn't scare defenses. he's made a living feeding off the attention of much better receivers on his team- Moss, Gronk, Hernandez,... It's why NE paid MORE for an injury plagued Amendola than for Wes this offseason. Not to mentioned Wes has had a ton of key drops that have cost NE big time the last 2 years.
Bart was incredibly underrated here, he had one bad year(2011) where he was banged up but he was GREAT for us in 2009 & 2010. A leader and a guy who did all the dirty work.
Bart Scott was never great. Ever. The words Bart Scott and great don't belong in the same sentence. At his very best he was an above average LB. Even if you think he was good, theres no way you can say he was great ever. That's a word that should be used for someone who's actually great.
I said he was great for us not that he was a great player, he was vital to our success and a really, really good player. VERY underrated by Jet fans and around the league b/c he didn't put up flashy #s.
Very weak, regurgitated junc point. Nobody looks at numbers when they judge a MLB anyway. Bart Scott if anything was overrated in his time here. Certainly overpaid. Whenever anyone talked of the Jets top ranked defense, Bart's name was always brought up - He was visible and generally well thought of. That's pretty much the opposite of being underrated. I can't think of any time I would've thought of him as underrated. I'm not so sure he was vital to the defense's success either. I think that is overrated. Rex brought him in because he's a buddy and Rex gets too close to his players but he could've instituted his defense just fine without Scott.. Scott hurt the defense in many instances because even in his prime he was very weak in coverage. With a league that is heavy on pass catching TEs, that's a big problem.
he wasn't a MLB, he was an ILB. The only times people brought up his name was when he said something or did something crazy and I am not talking about perception around the league as much as I am talking about his perception among Jet fans. rex didn't camp out at his house on FA eve and pay him all that money b/c he was a buddy, that is just silly. Scott and harris' weaknesses were in coverage but not many LBs can cover the Gronk or Hernandez types. Every player has flaws but Bart was really good for us and vital to our success.
