Whether he "scares" you or not is pointless... 1000 yards is 1000 yards... 3rd down efficency is 3rd down efficency.... and your point about 1 yard passes to replace a running game makes no sense... did they do that? yes, but he still had to run for YAC so whats the difference... you're biased... you don't like him... and that's fine you're entitled to your opinion... just be honest about it
and 1000 is MEANINGLESS. It's just a number. What's the difference between 995 and 1005 yards? The same as 895 and 905. With 16 games, 1000 yds is 67 yds a game. YAY. My point about 1 yard passes makes PERFECT sense. Gives them a lot of extra receptions a team with a running game's WRs would not get. I like Coles actually. There is nothing to admit. I just don't think he's this great receiver. Look back a couple years. I LIKED THE FACT that Bradway got a #1 for him letting him go to Washington (I thought that was one of Bradways best moves... and you know what? STILL DO! Now what he did with the #1 I did not like, but getting it was brilliance. I also did not want Moss to be dealt for Coles, but understood that Moss wanted big coin)
67 yards a game for a receiver isn't bad considering there are 5 to 7 options a QB has to throw to per play... that's why a 1000 yard season is a big deal.. my point I made about 1 yard passes had nothing to do with number of receptions but receiving yards... I agree that number of receptions is meaningless if their for 0 yards... that isn't the case with Coles...
So what are they for? 5? It's nice to replace a running play, but it explains the bloated reception count. Nothing wrong with the play. 1000 yds is a number that floated around the NFL since it had 12 games. Now there are 16. 1000 rushing or receiving is meaningless. I like to look at a number around 1200. Coles was 12th in yardage this year. Not bad, but far from a very good or great receiver considering he's 1/2 our running game as well. I'm sorry, and it's ok for you to like coles. I'm happy he's on our team since he's tough, but I think he's average to slightly above avg at most. I also think he's reached his peak. in other words, downhill from here. Cotchery has some upside, and can be > average if he keeps up the progress.
Relax, I don't think Wayne is very serious about Shottenhiemer, and I haven't read anything about BS coming in for a second visit either.... As much as I'd like to have a young up and comer like BS, he's simply too in-experienced to handle the responsibility of being a head coach in my opinion. Maybe in another couple of years he'll get a shot somewhere, but right now, it's too soon expecting him to make the leap.... And for the Jets fans here who want to smack Wayne, and the manner in which we've chosen to conduct our current head coaching search, should realize that being thurough is the most important aspect here. Wayne has simply left no stone unturned, and I'm sure if you guys were in the same situation, you'd want your owner doing the same..... He took 12 candidates, and is now breaking it down to 5. As far as I know, Brian Shottenhimer has not been contacted for a return interview. With that said, you guys should have nothing to worry about in terms of losing him....
The biggest difference between being used the way Coles is being used now and being used mainly down the field is WHO hits him. Coles gets hit by linebackers a lot and he gets hit by corners who have him in their sights in front of them a lot. That's more like a runningback's hitload than a normal receivers. The fact that he catches the ball within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage a lot is a huge positive in his stats not a negative as you make it out to be. For the record: Santana Moss now has 290 receptions for 34 TD's in his career. He has fumbled 7 times in those touches. Coles has 506 catches for 31 TD's and only 5 fumbles. They're not even in the same category of receiver. One of them is going to go to the hall of fame if he keeps up his production until the required 12 years for a receiver, the other one has not got a prayer.
It is funny how a player that does not "scare" the opposition gets double teamed constantly. If he was just an average receiver why bother? When he does not get double teamed he shreds the other teams defense ala the Minnesota game. Seriously, are you just offering opinion because he is not a player you like? The opposition this year put a CB and a safety on him almost every play. Without a running game or a QB that can throw a deep out, sideline pass etc he played excellent. You think if we had a running game and or a QB with a better arm his numbers are more or less? Coles and Cothchery did about as well as they could in this scheme. Pennington is not a 300yd per game QB and never will be. We had zero running game so the opposition can cheat and not put 8 in the box like they had to with C. Martin. Hence double teams on our receivers. They were definitely above average, came up with big plays when they had too, unless of cousre I was watching a different green team this year.
Sorry back on topic. I am here in Miami and listened to Chris Mortenson and Hank "the hammer" Goldberg on the radio on different stations mind you. They both have stated that Brian Shottenheimer interviewed very very well and he very well may be a finalist for the Dolphins head coach job. They also both said Huizenga does not mind getting a young coach because he feels Shott is going to be a HC in a year or two max anyway. The sentiment is, it is better to get them a year or two early rather than watch them get scooped up somewhere else when the time is right. BTW Huizenga also really really liked Tomlin as well.
Minnesota weren't scared of Coles - look where that got them. Everyone else was scared and schemed accordingly.
IMO we will retain SCHOTTY. I see his lack of experience and exposure to MARTY ball as negatives to the BLOWFISH!
That's one of the reasons the Jets grabbed Mangini last year. He'd have been in Pittsburgh this year if they didn't. I think Schottenheimer has pulled to almost even money to get the Dolphins job at the moment. If he's a disaster in his one year then they eat the contract and make a huge push for Cowher next year.
I don't think he's a negative. I don't think what he's doing is a negative. I think he's being used to his ability... which in my opinion doesn't make him a very good or great receiver. Coles is not making the Hall of Fame, I don't care what production he keeps up.... (neither is Moss)... I just like Moss' deep threat ability.
Take a look at the guys who had Coles numbers through 29. You'll find more than a few of them in the hall. And that's despite the HOF bias against receivers.
Nobody in this thread mentioned Coles as a "great" receiver. He's a good receiver, and at 29 he has shown no signs of declining. You gotta admit that Coles is a better receiver than Moss. He is a better receiver in every facet of the WR position except speed. But you didn't want it? Coles has better hands, runs better routes, takes the hits over the middle, knows where the 1st down markers are, and blocks. I was a big fan of Santana and still am, but Coles is a better complete wide receiver. I think Cotchery has good speed. He did infact improve his speed this past offseason and he has showed it. His rookie year, in St. Louis the KO return he had for a TD, but this year he also showed some flashes of big play ability, most notably last week's huge play. I just don't see how they're "average." They're simply good receivers, not great, not bad, good receivers. Give these guys a strong armed QB(Clemens) and you'll see their deep-play ability come to play more often. But right now it's Chad, and you gotta play to his strengths, which I have no problem with.
There is NO WAY he's going to the hall of fame. In my opinion you need to be one of the top 5 receivers in the league during a portion of your career... and he's not in the top 10 in any year of his career.
Right now, if both are 100% healthy, I'd prefer Moss. I did when the trade went down, and I still do. Cotchery is making improvements. In my mind, "average" = "pretty good"... That's what they are, with Cotchery havign a chance to be better than that. Coles had a QB with a strong arm.. for 2 yrs... and he still did not show much deep threat ability, so say byebye to that argument.
I think you forgot the image of Santana running to the sideline whenever Pennington threw him the ball.
Well, you're one of the very few who would take Moss, who the ONLY advantage he has over Coles is his speed/deep threat ability, that's it. I'll take the reasons I mentioned over 1 advantage. Ok, now that I understand your definition of "average," it's more clear to me and I got it down. I'll somewhat agree that they're pretty good. And he didn't show big play ability in Washington? He had like 20 receptions over 20 yards and 2-3 receptions over 40 yards. A YPC of roughly 15 yards, and 6 TDs. Brunell isn't exactly a "strong armed" QB either. He has a solid arm, but not strong armed. Ramsey just sucks, although he did have a decent year.
Coles is in the top 10 receivers over the last half decade. The other guys on that list all had people like Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Marc Bulger, Carson Palmer and Ben Roethlisberger throwing to them for most of that period. Coles had Vinny, Chad, Ramsey, Bollinger and a cast of thousands throwing balls his way. Here's the kicker: if you look at the list by age of the top 10 receivers over the last 5 years the only guy who is younger than Coles is Chad Johnson and he's only younger by a couple of weeks. It's easy not to appreciate greatness in front of you until it is gone. With Coles in slightly different circumstances (like actually having a great QB throwing to him) the numbers would be in the top 10 all time for his age. As it is he's in the top 30 of ALL TIME for his age. The Moss for Coles deal stands out as one of the larger ripoffs in NFL history and that's taking nothing away from Santana Moss who is a pretty decent receiver himself.
