Ok, Enough already with the Arm strength arguments and the Good/Bad Chad threads. It is what it is. If any of you are checking out the Bears/Saints game today, one facet has to be jumping out at you. Both of these teams have exceptional defenses. Not just good, not adequate, not serviceable... Exceptional. If you want to focus on the Bears, their defense is a quantum leap beyond what the Jets field at this time. What is the lesson to be taken from this? What can we learn from what we're seeing on the field? The Bears are playing in the NFC Championship game with Rex Grossman at QB. The Saints are 1 year removed from 3-13. How can this be?. Simple Jet Fans. They both are exceptional at one facet of their game. The Bears are all defense, minimal offense. The Ravens rode this to their SB victory. The Bears don't have to score alot. They really don't need TD's. All they need to do is get within range of their FG Kicker and hold the other team's offense. Does this sound familiar at all? To you oldtimers, you should be reminded of the '85 Bear team. To you youngins, this should be the Ravens redux. If the Jets EVER plan to overtake the Patriots, they won't do it relying on Chad Pennington. This team needs to focus solely on Defense for the next 3 years atleast. A complete turnover with perhaps 3 holdovers. Ellis? Adios. DRob? Maybe. Rhodes? Keeper. Hobson? Bubble. Vilma? If he doesn't adapt to the 3-4 then put his next contract on hold. The Jets must ride a Dominant Defense to the next level. No ifs, and's or but's about it. Chad won't take over any game. He won't lose because of stupid mistakes, but he's not gonna beat a team from anywhere on the field. That's not what Chad does nor should he try to. Stick to what he does best. Control the game, minimize mistakes. Herm ball in a nutshell. As long as Chad is the starting QB of the NYJ's, we're gonna have to develop and maintain a defense second to none. Our offense should see this final upcoming draft as restocking. Going forward, Tangini needs to revamp and transform our defense into one that strikes fear in every team in the League. Anything else is a waste of time, money and effort. Anything else is delusional. Anything else is a roadmap to mediocrity and I'd like to think Jet Fans have had enough of that.... JMHO
Umm the Saints dont have an exceptional defense. I know what you mean though but Pennington playing good is more important than an exceptional defense in my opinion.
I agree 100%. We don't need a QB with a monster arm. We need one that works hard and leads a team. I think we made the playoffs(3 times) so far in this decade is because of Chad Pennington. He leads the team very well and don't make stupid mistakes. Get another back, patch up the O-line and get the running game going and moving consistantly. Chad Pennington will only get better because he is now confident that he can play the whole season and his play-action QB.
I appreciat the point cman but you think the saints have an exceptional defense????????? pass that thing my way bro....maybe they have an average defense? maybe
Bash Grossman all you want, but he was able to make that NO CB look awful, which he is. Both of these teams have QB's that can throw deep. When NO shut down the Bears' running game, they were able to set them back on their heels with some intermediate to deep stuff. I agree, the best way to get to the Supe is with a good D, but both teams have QB's and WR's that can threaten deep. With Chad, and I love the guy, that threat simply does not exist. Pennington doesn't often make bad mistakes, but he still does, as all QB's do. That backwards pass against NE is a classic example of a mojor F-up. My biggest problem with Pennington is his ball security when he's under pressure. He hangs the ball out there just waiting to be stripped. So, while I agree he's smart, a great game manager, can read defenses, he still has two glaring weaknesses. He lacks the abilty to keep defenses worried about being beaten deep, and he is a turnover risk when the pocket collapses. This really is becoming the dead horse arguement. Unless the Jets become a top ten D at the very least, and can establish an almost unstoppable running game, Chad isn't the QB to go all the way. The real question is would the Jets have a better chance of going all the way with a QB that can run some, and throw deep? Can the position be upgraded? The answer is yes. Is Clemens that guy? We don't know.
the argument is not whether the saints have a great defense or not, it is that the recent super bowl winners have had RIDICULOUS defenses. Steelers, Pats, TB, Ravens etc..I completely agree..for too long the Jets have had a decent defense..its time we step up and make us great. The chargers (and I know they just got beat) but only got to be a really solid team once they concentrated solely on defense. With a FA RB or a RB in the draft, I think our offense will be fine for a few years. We need to find a DOMINATING pass rusher and just a tougher D in general. Nice original post, I completely agree.
Saints don't have an exceptional defense, they had an exceptional offense. The Bears have a top 3 defense, a good O-line and two good RBs...and they have QB that can keep the defense from stacking the box by throwing the ball downfield on a consistent basis (granted he was completing more of those passes earlier in the season.)
I agree with most of what you wrote BUT lets face facts! CHAD does throw INTS at the wrong times dating back to the PHILLY game in 2002 when he took over from VT during the game to save money! What was it, 16 INTS this year vs 17 TDs? HARDLY HALL OF FAME MATERIAL! He came in with a 17 to 6 lead and threw an INT to lose the game! Then there was the 2002 playoff game with OAKLAND. I love DEFENSE and strongly believe that DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS! BUT a great defense can not function when their QB throws INTS and squanders scoring opportunities in the red zone! Further, it is obvious that HOME FIELD advantage in the playoffs is very important! Will CHAD ever lead the team to consistent victories over NE even if we have a great defense? I doubt it! IF A TEAM DOES NOT WIN THE SUPER BOWL, they are second best! Winning a SB is what counts! I doubt that CHAD will last long enopugh with us to lead us to a SB. If we have to devote 3 years in order for the team to have a great DEFENSE, ERIC will surely pull the plug! The only thing that I agree wuth HERM about is that CHAD will never be a great QB unless he stops thinking too much! IMO he can't! The guy can not throw an out pass! That is what all the winning QBs are able to do! BRADY does not have GREAT talent surrounding him. However, he finds a way to win! How many times has he won games in the 4th quarter coming from behind? In the playoffs it is 6 times already! Has CHAD ever done it against a great defense? The SAINTS do not have an exceptional DEFENSE. They have an exceptional QUATERBACK and rode his shoulders the entire year! Their OFFENSE is very good! DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Ive been arguing this same point for over a year with alot of people....the mediocre players that a lot of Jet fans think are great (JON VILMA) are never gonna get us to the superbowl....and I said I agreed 100% with the orignal post....well 99.9%...that Saints have an exceptional defense part is hard to read
Ok, so I got carried away with the platitudes regarding the Saints D but you have to admit the overall Defense wins Championships argument is a valid one. :grin: Looked like the Saints D was a bit winded in the second half. At any rate, I still say put Chad with a top 5 defense and you'll get a SB appearance out of that combo.
No argument here KJ. Bad Chad definetly showed up this year however, I stand by my point that if you put Chad with a top 5 defense, you'll get a SB appearance out of it.
the jets won a super bowl with a good defense and a real qb as a starter. so, we need to get players on both sides of the ball, but especially at qb. put brady at qb on this year's jet team, and we're still playing today.
Um.... wrong. This team needs to upgrade at many positions, and to say if Brady.... well, I find that silly.
Well we just saw the game that Chad would never win as Jets QB. Down 21-6 at the half and winning 38-34 against one of the best pressure defenses of our time. Vinny would have had a shot circa 1998-2000 or so.
This isn't new it has been known to have a great team you need to stop the run and have a run game, those are things we need to fix for next year
The one part I completely agree with you is tearing up the D-line. Look at Ne as a perfect example. Their D-Line is among the best 3-4 line in the NFL. How much better do they make that slow by NFL standards LB core of the Pats look? Why do you think the Pats can <insert scrub here> into their secondary and have them play like an all pro? That line makes all the other players on that defense a notch better. How good do you think Vilma,/Rhodes/Dyson/Hobson/Thomas etc. etc. would look in front of Seymour and company? I would venture a guess and say a whole helluva a lot better than they do now. Thankfully, I really believe Mangini gets it. Just as he repaired the O-line or at least significantly improved it so to will he improve the D-line.
I agree completely. Football is the ultimate team game and defense is the most important facet of a football team. Talk about the Saints offense all you want, but the Bears D did a number on them today and sent the Bears to the SB. And while the Colts defense is nothing to brag about, the Pats lost today because their defense let them down, not because Brady didn't play well. And the Colts aren't even in this game if they don't get lights out performances from their defense in games against KC and Balt. Defense wins championships and the Jets won't win one until they build a championship defense.
Actually, the Jet defense in 1968 was the best in the AFL and was the best in the NFL against the run. It was not a good defense, but a great defense, a fact that often gets lost. And say whatever you want, but without Pennington, this year's team does not win 10 games. Enough already with the Chad bashing.
