Offensive Line

Found some more all 22 from Chase Daniels, who is a pretty reputable guy, former College all American and played in NFL as a sub for 24 years, now does tape breakdown. Points out that OL and protection was not all that great, particularly in the first half, shows breakdowns. That 20 yard run by Fields on the 1st drive, protection completely broke (looks like due to Ruckert). Has another play where protection broke down and Fields made something out of nothing. He also points out some throws where Fields could have been more accurate in the 1st half, but still in these instances he hit receivers, though could have released a bit earlier. Says Fields played well in the second half.

Overall I see pretty much the same I was saying all along: could not pick up the blitz early, was not great 1st half by Fields, good second half, solid overall.



Here is one more, though this guy is not a reputable like above, but the video does have several all 22 plays and generally he seems to make sense. Very similar conclusion.



What I see generally speaking is that offense and the QB is able to move the ball good enough, in spite of some issues, which is pretty rare for a Jets team. The problem is the defense, TOs, and penalties. We have a defensive HC, who cannot get defense right plus TO and Penalties everywhere (even if we subtract bullshit ones, there were too many). Which is why right now AG is my biggest concern, which is not amazing.

 

Based on the all 22 I was able to get, it's a combination of different factors. Big part of it is Fields is one of very few QBs who can extend the plays with his legs. Another QB takes a sack and this does not count against you in that category. Fields is able to escape, runs, then throws, and it kills the stats there.

Another part, and I think Chase Daniels mentioned it that when they bracket GW, it is hard to find someone. It's good to see Taylor play better last time, but we do not have another WR. Finally, Fields is a bit late as well and has a longish release, we saw example of that too in Chases' film.

So, it's a combination of all factors. I don't think Fields is ever going to be amazing passer. But if he can be a good enough passer, plus give that absolute elite dual running threat, that's overall a plus at QB, which we haven't had in a while. And I think in 3 games so far, in aggregate he has done that. With a good coach who could get defense right and reduce TO/pens we had good enough QB play to be 2-1 in these games. And's what I kinda want from a QB.

Is this a low bar? I mean, I want Mahomes and Allen too. But to start I will take solid QB play in most games, which is rarity in Jet land. Hopefully Fields will deliver that all season, and he has in 2 of 3 games so far and I want to see more. AG needs to step up too.

 

My take:

- agree that defense has been a much bigger issue than Fields so far this year
- agree that turnovers on both sides of the ball (we give it away at a rate of almost 2 per game, and we still haven’t taken it away even one time) has been a bigger issue than Fields so far this year
- agree that penalties on both sides of the ball have been a bigger issue than Fields so far this year
- agree that our shit cast of receivers after GW is a HUGE problem as there is mostly no one else to throw to on a consistent basis…I did like to see Taylor at TE get more looks and catches last game, and then really liked to hear AG say that this was a concerted effort that they talked about during the week, so good to see that the coaches planned for it and the player executed…that’s a good sign for our young OC (who I like quite a bit honestly)

That being said, I think our OL play this year, while not top 10, has been quite a bit better than years past…I think the credit for that goes to both JD and Mougey as JD added 3 of our current starters and Mougey added 2; and also I have to assume the coaching has been better as well…not that our OL is great, but better and what I would probably say “good enough to win with”

So when you get to how all of that affects our evaluation of Fields, sure that takes it into account. I don’t think too many people (if any) are blaming Fields for our 0-4 start. But my take is that when you watch him play, we still see him for who he has always been. He hasn’t really changed much at all. He is an electric great runner for sure…maybe not quite as elusive as Lamar but in that category and he certainly makes a lot of plays with his legs, which is great. But as a passer, he still shows the same flaws as he’s always shown.

And to me, they are eerily similar to the shit we saw from Zach…both have a hard time “seeing the field” and while I know that’s a vague comment, it shows up in things like who and when he throws the ball…it’s like he doesn’t anticipate the receiver’s route and throw it to where the receiver “will be”…he has to see the guy open and then throw…and with his long windup and slow release time, that often means the ball is “around” the receiver…sometimes behind him, sometimes over his head, etc. You can clearly see that in how many times the receiver has to make a “great catch” on the ball…Hall had to do it last game in that wobbler to the sideline (Fields’ only throw on that first drive), GW has had to do it quite a few times, sliding to catch a low ball instead of having the ball hit him in stride to let him get YAC. While we don’t have a ton of talent outside of GW at the receiver spot, there have been open targets who don’t get the ball because Fields doesn’t see it in time…and yes, I get that happens to all QBs, but it’s too often for Fields…he doesn’t hit the throw at the right time often enough and loses the opening.

All that being said, while he’s fumbled the ball (and you can make light of it as it was 4th down, fine, but still), he in general hasn’t made too many backbreaking plays like picks at the wrong time, so he’s playing safer. The downside to that is that we have literally ZERO ability to challenge a defense deep…we don’t stretch the field, and he hardly ever makes a throw over 20 yards out…yes there was the great throw to GW for the TD which was great, but in general, most of his throws are within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, but since he isn’t very accurate, we are not getting as much YAC as that style of play would generate.

Can we win with him? Sure, some. I don’t think he can take a team far in the playoffs because the competition will be too tough, but sure, can he win us say, 7, 8, 9 games? If the defense shows up, and if we cut out the self-inflicted wounds from turnovers and penalties, then yeah you can win a few games…9 may be on the optimistic side, but possible. BUT…the rest of the team has to be almost perfect…because he’s not a QB who can put the team on his back and get you there…he may once in a while with a great broken play run, but if you need a drive where he has to step back and throw you to a victory, we’re not gonna make it 9 times out of 10.

He is what he is…maybe a better QB coach or more seasoned OC or HC could improve his play…but we just don’t have that here.

So yeah, he isn’t the main problem on this team right now, ok, but he’s also not the “answer” at QB either. Good QBs in today’s NFL don’t go 3-11 with like 30 yards (Buffalo) or go into the 4th quarter with 65 yards (Miami)…they just don’t.

 

Fields is killing the offense. At the end of the day it is about winning and improving, it is not the Justin Fields show here. You can't gameplan for what Fields is doing.

He's an NFL backup, the type of guy you throw in the game when your starter gets hurt and you throw the playbook out.

Id like to see an offense with a plan

 

I have brought plenty of evidence and all 22. Can you point to the things based on actual tape where he killed the offense? The same offense that is actually better than last year in spite of the biggest loss on the team being Adams.

 

I would not give any credit for the OL to JD. It took him 6 years and so many draft picks and investments to get 3 good OL players, when Mooge managed to get 2 in 1 offseason (1 pick and one cheap signing). Also JD hired a horrible coach like you said, who made the talent we have look even worse.

Now as far as challenging the defense deep, did you realize Fields has top 10 ypa so far this year? https://sumersports.com/players/quarterback/ . Now i understand people rarely change their view, and it's hard to do it when we keep losing. And the offense is not scoring as much due to fumbles on 1 yard line and penalties. But I think I have shown all 22, where if you analyze, Fields personally has been solid so far. It is also supported by every statistical measure, whether you take EPA (same link), QBR, passer rating over 100, etc...

Now, I don't know if he can keep this up, but if AG does his job and fixes defense, penalties and TOs for the most part, the way Fields performed so far this year is enough to make play-offs and even win more than 9 games. And if Fields does not keep up the play he showed against Pitt and Miami, I will here shitting on him along with the rest of you guys. I am not there yet though. For now I am there on AG though.

 

you are way too slanted. You give him credit for touchdowns that never happen, excuse turnovers that DO happen, and dismiss stats about his time to throw because hes a "runner." newsflash he's not the only QB who can run.

the fact of the matter is these delayed blitzes would not be an issue if he got the ball out quicker and this offense is predicated on timing. hes fucking that up bad

 

I feel it is the opposite: you ignored entire half of good performance because we are down by two scores. Down two scores in the 3d with teams playing best players is not garbage time, it never has been. Also, I did not excuse the TO, he should have held onto the ball, I just gave it proper context that 4th and 5 when the alternative is a sack it wasn't a back breaking TO like the one at the 1 yard line. Same with time to throw, I did say one of the reasons was that he has slow release and is late at times. I even found some film on that. So, the way I see it, I am acknowledging the bad, and you are unable to acknowledge the good and are just not open to reviewing the evidence that might suggest a different outcome that you predetermined. In spite of the film and yes in spite of all major statistical metrics that do not count btw the TD that the refs stole from us.

As far as blitzes, I showed multiple examples in all 22 when he had no where to go, he was not slow in these cases. Chase Daniels commented on that too, plus there was in the other video. You got nothing to show as far as actual tape evidence that suggests Fields killed the offense. This is not to say he was perfect, not at all, but there is plenty that says he did fine in this game, which I pointed out. If you are willing to look at the actual film with open mind, let me know.

 

OL comments - you can choose not to give JD credit for bringing in 4 of our starting OL (going into the year….Olu, Simpson, Tippman, AVT), but the fact is that he DID draft 3 and sign 1 of those guys, so he deserves credit for that. Sure, I agree sucks that it took him 5 years, but in the end, this OL is mostly his guys. Now, I also give credit to Mougey for (a) using our first rounder to finish the OL this year and resisting maybe sexier picks like Warren, and (b) for something that JD NEVER got right, which is signing a CAPABLE backup in Myers, so that when AVT did go down (maybe predictably based on his history), we weren’t up shits creek like we were with JD when Becton kept missing time. So I hear you on the coaching issue, but I don’t know if Keith Carter was JD’s call or Saleh’s call and I guess in the end that probably doesn’t matter…as the GM I would hope that JD could go to Saleh and say hey man, you need to replace a bad coach (and then Saleh can decide how to react to that demand), but still. I wanted to like JD, but I can’t deny the fact that he had five fucking years to build a good roster and failed miserably, but I did like his focus on the OL, and after 5 years he finally found some decent guys….of course, I’m not seeing any All-Pro’s there yet, so there is that, but he does deserve some of the credit here.

Fields comments - I just think with Fields the stats are what they are, and they are not bad as numbers go. But to me, this is a great example of context being needed to really digest the stats. You say that Miami wasn’t playing prevent…fine, but I do know that on many plays, they rushed 4 and just had a row of LB’s standing 10 yards deep allowing anything underneath. OK fine, not technically Prevent, but pretty much the same thing. For the first 3 quarters, dude had 65 yards passing. In what world do you see that and say wow the QB is playing well? Not this one. And if he didn’t have many attempts earlier its because the coaches, who coach and see him EVERY DAY, didn’t trust him to make the play…shit, on the only throw in that first drive, he wobbled a disgusting pass that Hall had to make a play on. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. There’s a reason the OC is calling the game this way. I’m glad that by the time we were down two scores with a quarter left to go the Fins let up on D and Fields took advantage of that, but those stats come with an asterisk.

In any case, Fields to me is what he is…we are losing games mostly because of a disgusting defense and bad turnovers and penalties, but he’s not really helping the case even though he may not be the biggest culprit. Great QBs overcome and lift others up…Brady did that his whole career…mostly he played with scrub receivers that proved that when they played elsewhere…shit, he made Julian fucking Edelman look like an All Pro…and when he had a true elite WR in Moss, he set all kinds of records. So yah, not to say I’m trying to compare Fields to Brady and hold him up to that standard but just as an example of what a good QB does for his team. Fields is nowhere near that. He needs the rest of the team to play mistake free almost perfect football, and while many QBs are like that, none of the really good ones are…Mahomes doesn’t need that, Peyton never needed that, etc.

So Fields to me is a below average QB who can make electric plays with his legs, and if the rest of the team plays great, you can win some games with him…but not enough to be a playoff team I don’t think.

But you are seeing him with the glass half full view, and I guess I’m seeing him with the glass half empty view…let’s hope the rest of the team improves enough to let us see what he can do…