I could have been talking about either one. if that was the case he would have caught on w/ another team and taken off but his career fizzled after he left us. his career actually turned for the worse w/ us in 1983. Yes I did and I have a good copy of that game so i have viewed it in the last few years. He doesn't get the blame for the fumbled KO but not leading us to points as Buf scored 24 does fall on his shoulders then throwing the game ending INT. I never said he was all bad, for 2 years he was a good QB but we didn't see those type of yars long enough. of course not early on, basically I was comparing the '81 and '82 Jets to the '85 and '86 Jets and the '81 and '82 teams were MUCH better. That's just not right. The top QBs of that era did not have negative TD to INT ratios. Ken Anderson +37 Dan Fouts +12 Steve Bartkowski +12 Joe Montana +134(his career did take him into a new era but his ratio from '79-'83 was +34) Brian Sipe +5 Ron Jaworski +25 Todd was -37 They were similar seasons but prorating his '82 #s over 16 games he has 1 less TD than '81 and 1 more INT.
Why aren't you calling out the defense that allowed 24 straight points in that game. Todd threw for over 350 yards and put 27 points on the board. Not that he doesn't take some of the blame. This is ultimately the problem…everyone wants to blame the QB, always the easiest fall guy. Same thing with Pennington this year. We didn't see more of those years because Walton traded him after one year as HC in 1983. Todd and the Jets as a whole in 1983 were a big disappointment. Todd was never given a chance to redeem himself. Then Todd was traded to a lousy Saints team. Meanwhile I didn't see Walton trading O'Brien when he had a subpar second half in 1986 and a mediocre 1987. My point was that early in Todd's career he played with terrible teams 1976-77. O'Brien early in his career 1985-86, played with better teams than Todd did. Stats are deceiving. As I said before Todd played with terrible teams and he's no Hall of Famer. You're comparing him with 2 legends in Fouts and Montana along with Anderson who's on many people's short list for the Hall. That leaves 3 other QBs on your list. Maybe they were better than Todd, but Todd was good enough to get the Jets within a game of the SB. I think everyone who is defending Todd feels he deserved a better chance and that the switch from Michaels to Walton was a setback to Todd and the Jets organization. I think we can all agree that the Jets were on the right track until Walton replaced Michaels. And I still have better memories of Richard Todd than Ken O'Brien, because Todd was the QB when the Jets came out of their 13 year funk and he won a couple of big playoff games. I just can't say the same about O'Brien who had decent stats but never won in the postseason.
The D gets some of the blame too but they held Buf down and allowed the O to come back and todd couldn't complete the comeback. yards are deceiving, Vinny had almost 500 yards against bal in week 17 of '00 and we scored 20 on the toughest D in the league- did he have a good game? that lousy saints team became pretty good right after Todd left. If he had anything left he would have gotten another chance w/ another team. Walton didn't trade O'Bren b/c they didn't spend a 1st rd pick on a QB in those years. Had they done that then maybe they do deal Kenny in the late 80s? Todd started out w/ bad teams, O'Brien ended w/ bad teams. they both had very good teams for 2 years but Todd's teams were far better. Sipe had his team in the ttile game in 1980, Bartkowski had ATl in the div rd, Jaworski got his team to a SB. those were comparable guys during that era and they had much better #s than Todd. Again I am not all negative on Todd, he did some good things here and led some very good teams but overall I'd say he was a disappointment.
By the way, Todd had 3 INTs in that game. The last one which sealed the game plus 2 others that led to 10 points.
I don't think it's that easy for a 30-year-old QB to just pick up where he left off, going to a new place after 8 seasons. Especially back then when guys didn't move around so much. I don't think what he did after he left can translate to what he would have done had he stayed with a pretty good Jets team. The lost year in here is 1984 with most of the core of that team still in their prime. That was the year Gastineau set the sack record, Klecko and Lyons were still in their prime, McNeil and Hector were young and healthy, Walker and Shuler were in their prime, the O-line was solid, but we were unsettled at QB. We started 6-2 with Pat Ryan, lost a couple and then inexplicably went to O'Brien and finished 7-9. I think if we kept Todd we would have continued what we were doing with the 81 and 82 teams, but again, Walton as coach being the giant X-factor.
Yeah man, dead heat. This was the best one yet. I think there are enough guys to keep some good conversation going throughout the off season.
There's a lot of debatable guys--Rob Moore, James Hasty, Jeff Lageman, Bruce Coslet, Johnny Johnson, Adrian Murrell, Anthony Becht, Pete Carroll, Marvin Jones, a lot of borderline guys from that era. I would bet Coslet would almost be as dead even as Todd.
1982 is dead to me. The strike killed the season. Then the mudbowl gave it the coup de grace. And yes I agree that his '82 stats were as good as '81, if only over 9 games.
The killer was the 1982 finale at Kansas City, a bullshit make-up game from the strike. We lost to a bad Chiefs team and ended up having to go on the road for three playoff games. Win that KC game and the Mud Bowl doesn't happen, we play at Shea.
Is that true? I always thought that game didn't mean anything. Miami finished a game in front and had the tiebreakers.
