Anyone else struck by similarities between the Chad Pennington/Kellen Clemens situation and the one a few years back with Vinny Testaverde/Chad Pennington? Just prior to the change, Vinny was playing horrible and there was a groundswell among many of the fans to get Chad in there (and a VERY vocal group in Vinny?s corner). Eventually it took an injury to VT to get Chad in there....but once he was, they never looked back. I suspect we are in the midst of a similar ride for the CP/KC. The problem is how do you bench the team leader for an unproven young guy? Herm was always gun-shy to make any move. If Vinny didn?t get hurt, I think he would have remained the starter the rest of that season. With Mangini, I am not so sure. I think the leash will be shorter. I wouldn?t be surprised to see Clemens starting relatively early in the season. Chad looks kinda defeated (not unlike Vinny), whereas KC in doing his best Chad (circa 2002) impression. Chad is tossing VT-like picks (and almost looks as immobile as Vinny), while KC is tossing darts. I am not advocating for the change (nor am I against it)....as I think a lot of CP?s problems are due to the O-Line (just as Clemens? success is from playing against second units). I am a Chad fan, but I am more a Jet fan. I?ve got faith that Mangini will do the right thing for the team. I just hope the right thing doesn?t take too long to present itself. DbJ
The similarities are based on a physically declining incumbent (Chad to injuries and Vinny to age) and a first day QB drafted a season or two before. All NFL teams that invest a 1st or 2nd round pick in a QB are planning to get him in as a starter by the end of his second year. If they don't do that the odds are enormous that the pick didn't pan out and they're back to having the same incumbent only 2 years older and with no replacement in sight. I'm going to be shocked if Chad is still the starter at the midpoint of the season.
Your logic defies reason. I might suggest teams draft QB's for long term investment and insurance through good nurturing and coaching. Am I wrong in thinking the Jets could have had Leinart from last years draft? And wasn't CP still unproven after his second rotar cuff injury? I wish people would just look back over the past few seasons when "noodle arm" got the job done in spite of everything. And one final thing my sporting hero Joe Namath, one of the hottest arms in NFL history nearly blew the SB season because he was too keen to throw the laser. Smart QB's get it done in this league with their brain.
of course youve seen this movie before....its the same scenario as like 90% of all qb controversies/changes
Keep in mind guys that Chad looked like crap last pre-season too before turning in one of his best performances against Tennessee in week 1. Let's wait to see how he looks in the regular season before assuming he's cooked based on the pre-season, where his number have always been pretty bad...
You'd be wrong to suggest that teams have any interest at all in using a 1st or 2nd round pick on somebody they're going to "nurture" as a long term investment. The reason? They have lots of needs that they need to fill now and using those picks is normally how you do it. Do teams draft 6th round QB's with kind of a "maybe he'll work out or maybe he'll be a back-up his whole career"? Sure, but the Jets drafted Clemens in the 2nd round and he'll either hit the field with them fairly soon or likely not at all.
DbJ - I thought you meant that you had seen the "Jets with no offensive line" movie before, as in the year that Ken O'Brien took about a million sacks. Anyone remember the year and the total? TBTF
Wasn't Clemens a #3. Let chad start the season. I think we will see the accurate, smart Chad. Plus, we are still missig the TJ factor.
First off I'm a BIG Chad Fan and I do not endorse any kind of QB change this season...nor do I think that there will be one. I firmly believe Chad will shut up all the critics once the season gets rollin'...it might not be in week 1 or 2 becasue of the WIP offensive line (unless we pick up a veteran OG or RT), but by Week 3 I really expect the TEAM to begin their roll...and that roll will start with Chad. ( IMO a victory in Wk 1 or 2 is just gravy...) Regardless of what has been thrown at Chad, the multiple Offensive Coordinators and playbooks, the poor supporting casts, the injuries, the negative critisism - he has always come out a winner and more importantly made the PLAYERS AROUND HIM and the NYJ WINNERS. Agreed, there have been no Superbowls, but keeping in mind the history of the NYJ franchise - there has been arguably no more consitent of a winner at QB in our history. I'll take where he has taken us over any period of time I can recall and I'm 37 and have been a season tix holder since '75. (Yes '98 was amazing, but it was ONE YEAR) With all that said, I truly believe this will be Chad's last year in Green and White...regardless of where he takes us...even if it's a Superbowl Victory!! Tannenbaum and Mangini drafted Clemens as THEIR QB of the Future - THEIR Face of the Franchise. NO GM in their right mind takes a flyer on a QB in the second round. Our front office knew what they were doing and what they wanted when they drafted Clemens that high. But just as the Front Office realized when they drafted him, we have to remember that Clemens did not bloom at Oregon until his junior year, and that he played only 1 half of football in his Senior Year, so by no means would he be ready to be an NFL QB in 1 or 2 years. Clemens needed exactly what Chad provided him over the past 2 seasons - a tutor, a mentor, a cerebral QB that from which he (Clemens) could learn the pro game. Simply said, Chad is to Clemens and the NYJ franchise what Vinny was to Chad and the NYJ of the late 90's. They are both Professional QB's that do not hurt your team while playing and actually give your organization a better than average chance at victory while most importantly nuturing your future Face of the Franchise. Unfortuantely, Chad's time as THE Franchise is running out because of no other reason than injuries. Had Chad been healthy 2 years ago, Clemens would not be here today. Why would Tannebuam draft a QB that year if he had a winning and helathy QB that at the time was only 29/30 years old.??? It doesn't make sense So why no change this year?? Because Chad deserves it after last year. He carried this team, he made this team run, he got them to the playoffs - with no running game. Simply said he earned it. Anyway, to all eyes (mine included) it APPEARS Clemens has progressed and matured quickly and confidently thanks to Professor Chad -almost making it to graduation -which comes in 2008 when the time will come to put all that tutoring to good use and to see if Clemens has what it takes...waiting any longer than NEXT YEAR is too long, not for Clemens, but it is for Tannenbaum and Mangini - they need "their guy" running the show. Where does that put Chad? It puts Chad out of NY - His value will be at a premium to teams like the Lions, Falcons, Bucs, and any other team that has a young QB or one that will be drafted in 2008 in the hopes that the young gun will be the face of their franchise in the future. Any GM would love to have a QB that still has some years left that will allow his team to be competitive, while also providing the mentorship (such a word??) to the future face of their franchise. Sort of sounds lilke the role Vinny played in 2000, 2001, and 2002 - Doesn't it?? If you are a GM who would you rather have teach your $50M investment, Chad Pennigton or John Kitna...sorry to make that so easy. You think the Chiefs would rather have Huard or Chad teach Boride Croyle..antoher easy one. Anyway, all you Chad haters, and un-original noodle arm quotists will have to put up with Chad for 1 more year.....than you can all turn the page and start in The D'Brick Haters Club.... Sorry DBJ if I made it sould like you were a Chad hater. I understand your point and really only used your post to empahasize my points that much more. Much respect!!
excellent excellent excellent post, finally a poster who sits down and logically breaks down the situation
Agreed that this is pretty much similar to any QB controversy where a backup is possibly going to take over for a starter. Not specifically the Chad and Vinny situation.
T-to-B, Great post. No offense taken. I still plan on wearing my Pennington jersey every Sunday this fall. It is a difficult situation. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. DbJ
Great post by T to B. I still say the criticalities to watch this year will be the play of the O-line, which to date, has not performed well at all. We also did not acquire the run stuffing NT we needed to shore up the 3-4. Maybe Paoha (sp? to laazy to look up) can get it done. I really do not think we will acquire veteran OG help through any kind of trade. I guess it is always possible, but I doubt it. That said, I think that if we cannot mount a respectable running game this year, it will be a tough year; 6-10 or 7-9 coupled with any problems stuffing the run on the D side. However, if Jones really pans out; and guys, we really haven't seen much of him yet, and Leon continues to set himself up for a great year, than we will not have to be mega dependent on Chad and the quality of his arm. The 9 guys in the box will quickly go away when Leon and/or TJ start ripping some big gainers because we were able to figure out a way to break down the opposing teams D line. I really do not see anything at this point to be overly worried about. I think if we can get a better running game established this year, and we should, I think we have a good shot at the playoffs. Oh, BTW, Chad gets to lead the team this year and maybe next. It always comes down to production. W's always make up for everything. Even though we will not, but, if we went 13-3 this year, nobody will be talking about when will we unload Chad for Clemens.
