Did he use steroids? (1/10/08)

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by Jetfanmack, Jan 10, 2008.

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Do you think Roger Clemens used steroids?

  1. Yes, I'm convinced he did steroids

    43.2%
  2. No, there's no proof that he did steroids

    4.1%
  3. I think he did them, but I have no proof

    44.6%
  4. I'm not going to make a judgment yet.

    8.1%
  1. Cakes

    Cakes Mr. Knowledge 2010

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    Andy Pettitte
     
  2. JumboJet

    JumboJet New Member

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    1010WINS just reported that Petitte told in a sworn affadavit about Clemens discussing using steroids.
     
  3. Murrell2878

    Murrell2878 Lets go JETS!
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    APNewsBreak: Pettitte tells Congress that teammate Clemens revealed HGH use in conversation

    By RONALD BLUM, and
    3 hours, 50 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON (AP)—Roger Clemens told Yankees teammate Andy Pettitte nearly 10 years ago that he used human growth hormone, Pettitte said in a sworn affidavit to Congress.

    Pettitte disclosed the conversation to the congressional committee holding Wednesday’s hearing on drug use in baseball, a person familiar with the affidavit told The Associated Press. The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity Tuesday because the document had not been made public.

    According to the person familiar with the affidavit, who said it was signed Friday night, Pettitte also said Clemens backtracked when the subject of HGH came up again in conversation in 2005, before the same House committee held the first hearing on steroids in baseball.

    Pettitte said in the affidavit that he asked Clemens in 2005 what he would do if asked about performance-enhancing substances, given his admission years earlier. According to the account told to the AP, the affidavit said Clemens responded by saying Pettitte misunderstood the previous exchange in 1999 or 2000 and that, in fact, Clemens had been talking about HGH use by his wife in the original conversation.

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    “We don’t know what Andy said,” Clemens’ lead lawyer, Rusty Hardin, said in a statement e-mailed to the AP by his spokesman. “We look forward to hearing tomorrow.”

    The existence of the affidavit first was reported by The New York Times. The details of its contents were first reported by the AP.

    The news came on the eve of Clemens’ much-anticipated appearance to testify before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. His former personal trainer, Brian McNamee, is Wednesday’s other main witness. McNamee told baseball investigator George Mitchell that he injected Clemens with steroids and HGH at least 16 times from 1998 to 2001. Clemens repeatedly has denied those allegations, including, he said, under oath in a deposition last week.

    Pettitte also sat for a deposition at the beginning of last week, and had been scheduled to testify at the hearing. But he asked the committee to allow him to give an affidavit instead of appearing at the hearing, the person familiar with the document said. Pettitte was dropped from the witness list Monday.

    McNamee also accused Pettitte of using HGH, and after the Mitchell Report’s release in December, Pettitte acknowledged that he did.

    On Tuesday, Clemens made the rounds on Capitol Hill one last time, wearing a gray pinstriped suit and squeezing face-to-face meetings into the busy schedules of committee members. He met with five lawmakers over a four-hour span Tuesday, on top of the 19 he saw Thursday and Friday.

    “I enjoyed talking with him,” said Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., who said the discussion included baseball stories and personal accounts about the Sept. 11 attacks. “It’s always good to meet the person who is in the spotlight. … I told him, ‘This is not a trial.”’

    But it might very well feel like one when Clemens and McNamee sit at the witness table and—under oath—offer what will surely be contradictory versions as to whether Clemens used steroids and HGH.

    “I couldn’t tell you who’s telling the truth,” Watson said.

    Before Pettitte’s affidavit came to light, Clemens got some help in his public relations push from a different ex-teammate Tuesday.

    “I have never had a conversation with Clemens in which he expressed any interest in using steroids or human growth hormone,” Jose Canseco said in a sworn affidavit, dated Jan. 22, that was submitted to the committee. “Clemens has never asked me to give him steroids or human growth hormone, and I have never seen Clemens use, possess or ask for steroids or human growth hormone.”


    Former New York Yankees pitche…

    AP - Feb 12, 3:52 pm EST
    In his affidavit, Canseco disputes various statements of McNamee’s in the Mitchell Report. The affidavit also says “neither Senator Mitchell nor anyone working with him” contacted Canseco to attempt to corroborate things McNamee said.

    Canseco’s book about steroids in baseball, “Juiced,” drew Congress’ attention in 2005, leading to that year’s hearing.

    The anticipation of Wednesday’s hearing rivals—if not surpasses—that of the hubbub before March 17, 2005, when Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro testified before the same committee in the same wood-paneled House hearing room. McGwire avoided answering questions about steroid use that day by repeatedly saying “I’m not here to talk about the past”—and his reputation has shown no signs of recovery.

    “I think Roger’s fully prepared to testify fully and truthfully,” Hardin said. “He IS here to talk about the past.”

    McNamee has kept a low profile in the buildup to the hearing. He gave a closed-door deposition under oath last week, two days after Clemens did, and has been waiting until the hearing itself to retell his story.

    Clemens didn’t have much to say Tuesday as he walked the hallways from appointment to appointment. He said he was getting a chance to meet some “interesting people,” and he waved appreciatively when two bystanders yelled: “We love you, Rocket!”

    The only scheduled witness besides Clemens and McNamee is Charles Scheeler, a lawyer who helped produce the Mitchell Report.

    AP Sports Writer Joseph White contributed to this report.
     
  4. MSUJet85

    MSUJet85 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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    Well that buries Roger, I wonder if he is dumb enough to perjure himself
     
  5. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    I'm going to have this running on my desk all day long. Even money Roger bursts into a rage at the witness table, today.
     
  6. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    If that's all there is Roger IMO Roger probably wouldn't get convicted of anything (it's hardly proof that he is lying now when he said 3 years ago that Pettitte misunderstood him), but it will certainly taint him in the public eye.
     
  7. MSUJet85

    MSUJet85 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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    Isn't Tejada about to get deported for less?
     
  8. statjeff22

    statjeff22 2008 Green Guy "Most Knowledgeable" Award Winner

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    The way citizens are treated is very different from the way noncitizens are. In any event, Tejada cannot be deported unless he is convicted of a crime (perjury) or admits to it, so it's actually the exact same thing - I doubt that he would be convicted on this basis either, and thus would not get deported. The deportation comes after the perjury conviction or admission, not before.
     
  9. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Again, not that I'm saying I fully believe Roger, but no one finds it the least bit curious that Jose Canseco said he's never had any experience with Roger dealing with steroids?

    The same Jose Canseco that practically gets a royalty every time the word steroid is used.

    I know no one wants to believe in the possibility, but there is a chance that Roger is clean, and always has been. It's not likely, but there is a chance.

    This whole thing is no more than a circus, and a mockery of the American justice system. Not to mention, nothing is ever going to change.
     
  10. MSUJet85

    MSUJet85 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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    Ever since he tried to indicate Arod for money and a second book, he lost his little credibility
     
  11. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Look, I'm not saying he's very credible, and I'm still not even saying I think Roger is innocent.

    My point now, as it has been all along, is that Roger is "guilty" without a trial, and without any true evidence. We have the word of a serial criminal, as well as evidence that could quite easily have been fabricated.

    There are more than a few holes in the case against Clemens. All I'm saying is that if he's actually innocent, he's been fully railroaded, and could miss the HoF illegitimately. Anyone, whether they like or hate Roger, who thinks that's okay should really look at themselves as a fan.

    On the other hand, if he's guilty, and it's proven, I hope he's never even put on a ballot.
     
  12. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    A window that now seems cracked only slightly. A window that closed just a little more with the opening statement and summary by Henry Waxman.
     
  13. Jetcane

    Jetcane New Member

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    Interesting opening statements.

    He saved the syringes bwecause he didnt trust him even back then...viewed them as evidence...says he injected them more times than he initially may have indicated...Knoblach and Pettite confirmed he injected them, Clemens has "unfortunately" denied it.

    Says he never injected them with B12 or lydocaine.
     
  14. Jetcane

    Jetcane New Member

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    He seems to be doing that right now.
     
  15. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    This is the first (and probably last) time I've ever been in this forum, but my office is closed due to inclement weather so I'm watching Roger Clemens get drilled. A relative of mine made a controversial documentary called 'Bigger, Stronger, Faster' about steroid use. It made a huge splash at Sundance and national distribution is in the future. Is Roger Clemens guilty? Hehe...hehe.
     
  16. SameOldJets2008

    SameOldJets2008 New Member

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    Niether of these guys are trustworthy so you have to look at physical evidence, and if you look at the physical evidence, Clemens is clearly outmatched

    Mcnamee has all these records and physical proof, Clemens has mcnamme said he went to a party and he really didnt.
    Are you kidding me? Who cares if he didnt go to that party, i think i see people all the time at parties when they arent there. Its called drinking.

    Clemens is going down in flames
     
    #56 SameOldJets2008, Feb 13, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  17. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    Eh. That would require the physical evidence to be verifiable. It doesn't seem that convincing to me.


    (For the record, I think he juiced. I just don't think McNamee has a very good case.)
     
  18. Jetcane

    Jetcane New Member

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    He sure aint no Honest Abe.

    :rofl2:
     
  19. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon Active Member

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    I don't know if I can produce a link, but Rep. Souder is the only one who addresses the true scope of this thing. His ire is directed at the owners and the union and the "wall of silence" from MLB, which is the real outrage in this entire situation.
     
  20. Jetfanmack

    Jetfanmack haz chilens?

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    Souder is pissed. He said Knoblauch had a really compelling deposition.
     

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