Pennington Artice from SN

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by GreenMachine, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. Jetzz

    Jetzz Active Member

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    While both of the QB's you mentioned are among my favorites of all time, neither of them won a Super Bowl on their arms alone. Elway needed to have a solid running game to complement him, and the Packers had a good running game and solid defense as well. On their own they were dangerous, but unable to win it all. You can't take Tom Brady from the Pats and put him on the Jets team and expect us to be the Pats... we'd only be marginally better than we are now.
     
  2. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Thank God someone else said it.

    I have preached this many times. Its nice to see someone else write it for once.

    I don't care what your opinion on QBs are in this world- the quote above must be taken into consideration all the time when looking at a QB. "Does he make his teammates better?"

    When a Jet QB answers this "yes", i know we have a higher percentage chance of going far into the playoffs.
     
  3. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    Quote: "...He was drafted in 83, went to the SB in 87, 4 years later... he made it 5 times, won twice. thats amazing for a QB. Plus, "the drive" (not to be confused with montana's) is credited to him against the Browns in the AFC Championship game...."

    True, you are correct, I should have said to win the SB, not get to the SB.

    And by the way, this point I am making was not original -- actually, I heard the commentator on one of those championship games for the first Bronco SB victory say it. Don't remember who it was now...

    But I certainly agree with it.
     
  4. Jetzz

    Jetzz Active Member

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    Hell Dan Marino got there too. What good is getting there if you can't win it? Another super QB who was unable to win a SB on his arm alone... and Marino probably had one of the better arms among them all.
     
  5. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    I wonder if you would have said this was going to be true about Eli Manning when he played that last game at the Meadowlands this year?
     
  6. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Yes they do need a great team around them, but when it counts late in the game- where do the heroics seem to come from? Last year for example- Eli's Houdini act to make the completion. Granted Tyree made a crazy catch, but it started with Manning breaking free. And scary enough, Brady's last attempt to Moss, that huge bomb- was almost caught in stride if it wasn't knocked away. How insane would that have been? If that happened, we would all be talking about how Tom Brady is perfect and that he can do it all and he's superman and the whole BS.

    Thats the point trying to be made. Its starts with the QB, and then everything else follows after.
     
  7. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Funny you should say that... the post above mentions him :)


    I do believe Eli's balls finally dropped after the Week 17 game against the Pats. He was always too passive and not confident in himself and wore down late in the season. Late in the year he did the opposite and led his team to a SB. His #'s say it all. 2 turnovers in all of January is amazingly impressive.

    His line is very good and so is Buress, but he did alot for that team to win. Not all of it, it is a team sport. But if there was a pie chart, i'd say for the playoffs he'd have the largest piece, with the DL coming in a close second.
     
    #107 NDmick, Apr 4, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2008
  8. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    The QB cannot win games by himself very often.

    It can happen, I grant you, but as an exception not as a rule.

    And if a QB's histrionic performance gets him a win then you better believe that all the defenses lying for him in the grass in the following weeks will take note.

    Every QB can be beaten -- never forget that. The Defensive Coordinators make a living on studying QB's tendencies, play by play, looking for an edge.

    One of the Buffalo DBs screwed up after the second NYJ game and started spouting off tendencies they were programmed to attack in the second half before some coach shut him up.

    Carl Banks, whom Fourthandlong calls a "Frontrunner" let it be known that "of course, everybody knows that Brett has to throw between the hashmarks, he can't throw outside the numbers." And this was exactly the tendency that Corey Webster jumped on in OT in the NFC Championship game.
     
  9. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    Yeah, but the SB was the eleventh on-the-road game they played. Now there's a context trend.

    The NYG were awful at the Meadowlands all year -- and in the last game there Eli fumbled the ball and was intercepted and they stopped throwing as a result, just ran the ball.
     
    #109 notjustQBs, Apr 4, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2008
  10. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    I think i found the answer to this debate:

    A QB cannot win the game all by himself. Football is a team sport, and the QB is on the field for only half the game. Actually, one QB for one team is on the field for maybe 1/4 of the game. BUT, in terms of quality and production and leadership- a QB must take the majority of the "pie chart" for his team. He doesn't take 80%, nor 75%. But somewhere above 52% of the overall credit would go to the QB. Those are the teams that win alot, are consistently making playoff appearances, and winning SBs. Maybe even becoming dynasties.

    Can everyone agree on that? If not i'll revise and come up with a new compromise. Sooner or later, the board will collectively agree with how much credit goes to a QB, and how much credit goes to the rest of the team for being superb during the season/post-season.
     
  11. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    So now we remove credit due to a road game? I know he didn't do well at Giants stadium, but now thats kind of fishing for reasons not to pat the kid on his back. Too far a stretch for me.
     
  12. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    Actually, the NYGs put "11 straight on the road" on their SB rings...

    They view it as a badge of courage. I agree.

    I am not making excuses for anybody. I don't blame or credit a QB for losing a game normally.

    Enjoying what happens in all the chessboard complexity of the NFL game is why I keep watching with such joy.
     
  13. GreenScreen313

    GreenScreen313 New Member

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    this thread has been fun to read through, which is more than I can say for most others this time of year. I gotta say I agree much more with KCK than the opposition, if for no other reason than ......... you putt Peyton/Tommy boy on our team and not much changes. That is pretty indisputable in my mind. I think most of the haters respond emotionally to seeing a touch pass get picked off on the sidelines, which is understandable. It sucks to see, we're fans, we react emotionally. But if you really analyze it, QB isn't a top of the list priority of things we need to improve upon.
     
  14. winstonbiggs

    winstonbiggs 2008/2009 TGG Bill Parcells "Most Respected" Award

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    Eli had 4 TD and 1 Int the Giants scored 35 points in that game Eli was great, they had issues running the ball but essentially lost because their D could not stop Brady half way through the 3rd quarter through the end of the game.

    The Giants ran the ball 19 times that game and threw 32 times. Admit it you didn't watch the game.
     
  15. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    That's not the game I was talking about -- you're right, the Pats did play them in the Meadowlands, and Eli played great.

    The game I was referring to is:
    "Sunday, 12/16 8:15 PM ET NBC WASHINGTON L 22-10"

    Sorry about that. I didn't want to mislead anybody about that superior game where Eli and the NYG won for losing.
     
  16. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    Winston, this was also a similar game for Eli:

    "Sunday, 11/25 1:00 PM ET FOX MINNESOTA L 41-17"
     
  17. Harpua

    Harpua Well-Known Member

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    Thats why you need QB's with good physical skills to make plays happen when nothing is there. Many of Big Ben's best plays from his SB win are on the move, making things happen. When all else fails the QB needs to be the play maker, because he is going to touch the ball every play. Which QB on our current roster is the 2 min drill guy making big plays? Kellen may be. Last year Chad melted down in those situations.
     
  18. FOURTHANDLONG

    FOURTHANDLONG Active Member

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    Every year Chad Melts down in that situation. The concept of at some point in Jan the Qb has to step up and make plays escapes most on the board.
     
  19. GreenScreen313

    GreenScreen313 New Member

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    I disagree. Chad has been elusive on many occasions. He's good with his feet, not a terribly quick guy, but has made quite a few players miss with a side-step here, killer juke there. What he lacks in that he makes up for with game mngmt. Nobody would say big ben is close to chad in that dept.
     
  20. notjustQBs

    notjustQBs New Member

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    It's too bad we are not having this debate during the season.

    There are a lot of cherished prejudices that need to be discussed in light of specific plays.

    I wish I had a play by play chart of these games to refresh my memory, but it's no substitute for the fresh-in-the-mind yesterday memories.
     

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