Quote: "...I'm starting to think that Tangini is heading a little off course of their original plan..." What is the evidence of their "original plan" that they have veered away from? Why is it that you don't look for the rationale behind their actions? Why do you start with verbiage instead of actions? I think that it is much more informative to scrutinize their actions and attempt to understand their rationale...in that order.
Quote: "...Then they trade away their entire draft last year for two players (good players but no depth)..." Obviously, you apparently disagree with their judgment that there was no relative value lower down in last year's draft. Who would you have picked with those slots that were invested by the NYJ FO? ...and why?
I hate the nickname too but I think it's most appropriate at this point given that I expect the two of them to be joined at the hip until they leave. Obviously the sum of the parts is more clueless than either of them could possibly be individually so you have to have some way of expressing that level of collective ineptitude at talent management and Tannenbaum and Mangini is just too long to write with my aged fingers and small laptop keyboard.
Quote: "...I dont know what it is about this organization's obsession with TEs --- J. Mitchell, K. Brady, A. Becht & not to mention dropping down from the 1st round a few years ago for D. Jolley...." I have already addressed these ad hominem criticisms. They have nothing to do with the standards or the decisions of this coaching / management regime. You have to address what is, not what was. They happen to be very different.
Any 4 pick appropriate players, possibly including David Harris on the 26 in the equation. It's what good NFL teams have been doing for the lifespan of the 7 round draft. Teams that have done what the Jets are doing, well it's awfully hard to find them to make a comparison, but fewer draft picks has generally lead to worse results long-term. Before you argue too much with that assertion note that the Jets had a 6 win decline after their first ever 4 pick draft. Makes for a tough countercase at the moment.
They draft to find starters, immediate help. Look at Harris and Revis, now these 2. Quality over quantity. Add that with the FA's , and we are talking about 6 possible new starters. We are going for it guys. Bulls eye on the Pats. This is ain't your daddy's Jets. I believe in these 2 guys. All aboard!!!!!!!!
Quote: "...We piss away draft picks like they were water. ..." Now, Bradway Sucks, whether we piss draft picks or invest draft picks has a lot to do with the coaching regime's judgment of the value of the draft potential (given the NYJ's needs). Each regime does a different job with different folks. Lumping them all together smacks of a hotfix list of a software program (Maddon '0xx?) but hardly describes a corporation's management process as it moves from one management team to another. Looking at the New York Jets as a monolithic entity suggests that they are a mythology in the court of the mythical King Arthur, rather than a privately-held (though sold) sports / entertainment corporation in the here-and-now U.S. capitalist economy.
Disagree completely. The draft is part of the entire off season. We added 3 starters to the team before the draft started and today there are still some big time NFL players who will be available to add to the team. We get two quality players out of the draft and some depth tomorrow and maybe add a player who is let go for cap reasons and this team has had a great off season. Times are different, the draft is one part of the equation and can't be looked at in a vaccuum.
Well, if you believe that the draft needs to manifest success within the 12 months thereafter, perhaps you have a point. I do not however believe that that is the case with most teams -- the NYGs are a marked exception not replicated anywhere I have seen.
That is not true. He was projected as the best TE in the draft and many mocks had him going late 1st to early 2nd. Several mocks had him going to Seattle at 26. And I would guess they new someone was going to take him (Giants, Seattle or NO trading up?). They are in the war room and privy to phone calls being made and information. Not us. To say he was definitely going to be there at 36 is moronic. And we did need an offensive playmaker. So it wasn't a WR but a TE/WR so what. Everyone was screaming on this board for an offensive playmaker that could produce in the redzone and stretch the field. The FO gets one (look at his size and speed), but everyone bitches because he wasn't the guy they thought and has a "TE" in front of his name instead of a "WR." So the hell what, it was a need.
The Jets ended up with two potential All-Pro players in '07. How many teams that "have done what the Jets are doing" have gotten such tremendous value out of the less picks they've had? And if there are multiple examples, have all those teams been unsuccessful?
They SAID it. Themselves. They TOLD us they were off-course. So, can we please straighten something out: For all of those who say that I have to sit tight and trust in this coaching staff and front office and give them time for their plan to develop, THEY are the ones who tell me they screwed up in 2007. So, this isn't two years of steady progress with one over-achieving year. This was one year of progress and one year of REgress. So, Tangini or Mannenbaum or Tanenbauni or whatever the hell you want to call them have ALREADY veered away from their original plan. They already screwed up. By their own admission.
You have to look at the Jets as a monolithic entity because the reproducibility of their errors is so consistent and obvious. The Jets have not made a single trade-up on the first day that has held up over a period of years since Parcells left town although they have traded up several times in the intervening years. Santana Moss cost us 3 players to draft and was gone after three seasons, at least one of them extremely ineffective. D-Rob cost us 3 players to draft and is gone after 4 seasons, with three of them at the heart of medicore to terrible Jets defenses. With that evidence at least partly in hand the Jets have chose to trade up for 3 first day players over the last 2 years. Why would I think that we'll have any more luck with Revis, Harris and Keller than we had with Moss and D-Rob? If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it and the Jets are caught in a kind of groundhog day right now that keeps them from ever learning from their mistakes. MOss and D-Rob should have given the Jets an object lesson in why you grab as many first day players as you can and try to develope them. Instead they seem to have taken the lesson that anybody can bust so you might as well put as many eggs as you can into the best possible basket to avoid that. I suppose we could have a magical season this year, with Kellen Clemens becoming a good QB and everything else dropping neatly into place. As a long-term Jets fan I estimate the odds of that at about 1000-1. It'd be a lot nicer to be watching a professional management team like the Pittsburgh Steelers roll smoothly towards yet another playoff season, with things like 4-12 an impossibility instead of a coin-flip away.
Revis and Harris were more impressive in their first year than Moss and D-Rob at any point in their Jets careers. Just because trading up for Moss/D-Rob was a mistake doesn't mean every time this organization trades up, it automatically means the player they select will fail.
Quote: "...Santana Moss cost us 3 players to draft and was gone after three seasons, at least one of them extremely ineffective. ..." Santana seems to be doing pretty well for the Washington Redskins. The situation he was put into with the NYJs perhaps was not as favorable as that at the Redskins.
Maybe so. But I truly believe they learned their lesson. Just look at the offseason as a whole, not just the draft alone. All of the FA signings, the trades of players that don't fit the season, the releasing of below average talent, drafting players to contribute immediately, and upgrading the coaching staff. I think they have learned from their mistakes and are back on course. I don't know how you can look at this offseason as a whole and not be happy with the progress.
Quote: "...Why would I think that we'll have any more luck with Revis, Harris and Keller than we had with Moss and D-Rob?..." Well, I think that you might go by the evidence of the performances of Revis and Harris in their first years, to start with. I would think that by anybody's measure, these rookies performed much better in their first exposure to the NFL's trial by fire than they were expected to. Harris' performance absolutely blew away one of our favorite linebacker's actual output in his third year...kind of exceptional if you ask me. Revis was tested in an adverse losing environment over and over, and by and large held his own pretty well. Let's see what Keller does, but already, by your issue, these tradeup rookies have done pretty well, all things considered.
So you made one point for me, last year both picks worked out. Now when Tangini drafted Keller they wanted a non-blocking TE. This is not your normal TE, he's a new age TE, look around the league. Keller was higher on our board then any of the WRs in the draft, not because he can't block, but he can catch and stretch the field. I trust what Mike Mayock said, and I'm liking this pick more and more.
