No sh*t sherlock, nobody is comparing them, I was talking about Emmit. Learn how to comprehend before you question anybodies age.
Gotcha and I forgot about Sweetness. He is the third back. I will rephrase my last post and say there is not even a close fourth.
I just read your other post. I apologize. Im so used to People living in fantasy worlds around her I sometimes jump the gun.
I hate when stats are use to prove a wrong point...Namath had a 50% throwing percentage. McNeil never had great stats. If you watched them play, McNeil was a better running back, he had break away speed. It's something that stats will never show, especially because he was injured all the time. Why do you people think I hate Martin.
You are the one that mentioned running Curtis behind Dallas' line not me. I was simply pointing out that if Sanders had anything helping in the slightest bit it could have been monumental. Curtis is great. I never argued against that. I love him to death. But when you are great, people always compare you to your peers in greatness. That's what he's up against to get into the Hall of Fame. Was he as great as the top three? In my opinion he is. But my opinion counts for shit. It's coaches and writers that vote for the Hall. And looking at their history, Curtis doesn't compare favorably with any of them...Emmitt Smith included.
I already gave my opinion on the original question of Martin vs. Chrebet, but since the thread seems to have shifted to Martin vs. other running backs, here's my take. I don't see any argument supporting McNeil (or any other Jets RB) being better than Martin, and I think the stats posted by Cakes pretty much settle that question. As most others have said, I don't think Martin is remotely in the class of Sanders or Payton, but is probably not too different from Smith (the team situations were so different that it's hard to tell). I guess the only thing different I can add, however, is to dispute that only Sanders and Payton were clearly better than him, or are clearly the best ever. IMO Jim Brown is definitely the best RB ever (and as an aside to Cakes, he also had 3 TD pases!). Martin wins on longevity, but otherwise Eric Dickerson was IMO a considerably better RB. LaDainian Tomlinson is obviously a far better player than Martin (and has had 7 TD passes!), and could very well end up being the best ever. Marshall Faulk is a cut below Brown and Tomlinson, but I think was better than Martin (in very different ways, of course). Thurman Thomas was probably as good a player as Martin as well. Note, by the way, that every one of these players is or will be in the Hall of Fame, and so will Martin.
Look I would agree with Sanders gaining more behind Dallas' line the same way Curtis would have, nobody is arguing that, so I'm not sure what it has to do with anything. What I said was Smith would not have been as good behind a lesser line. Yes they are all great and if you think Curtis Martin was not also great and deserves to be in the hall with other great players than you are crazy. As far as coaches and writers, they already know Curtis belongs and he will get in, no doubt about it.
Gerry Philbin, 5-time All-Star/All Pro, member of the all-time AFL team at DE, 64 sacks good for 3rd all time on Jets list behind Gastineau and Klecko, 19 sacks during 1968, Super Bowl champion. Enough said...hang #81 on the wall for all he did, and as a representative for a great defense (tops in the AFL for 3 straight years) that is overlooked.
I watched them both play and found Martin to be a more effective and reliable player. Then I look at the stats and I once again come to the conclusion that Martin was the better player.
Ah, Freeman McNeil. Again, my opinions get clouded by personally LIKING the guy. Besides, what a great football name. I've brought this up before. I remember McNeil crying on the sidelines because an opposing player got his leg broken in a play he was involved in. He got lit on fire for taking off his helmet and weeping. That's how my memory always works. Visual imprints. I loved Freeman McNeil. EDIT: Calling nyjunc...I posted about that in the Jets Trivia forum eons ago and you reminded me what player it was. And I forgot, anyway. :lol:
Plinko it sounds like your saying just because curtis wasnt the most exciting running back to watch he wasnt the best... I bet you wanted mcfadden too right?
But the underlying factor is that did it equate to more wins and more success during the offseason? No, emphatically. McNeil had a PRETTY running style, wooo hoooo .... THAT alone, as well as proving your point with STATS only is NOT ENOUGH to prove someone is a better player than another. I mean some of the BEST LOOKING players on the field whether it is football or basketball, CANNOT translate that into success at the pro level. If being pretty and having a GREAT arm, etc..etc... means your the BEST at your position, then Ryan Leaf, Browning Nagle in the NFL and Meadowlark Lemon from the Harlem Globe Trotters are the GREATEST players in their respective sports, professionally. Joe Montana could not heave the ball down the field but that man could pick you apart with ease and has the SB rings to prove it. Bottom line, when you take into account man to man, talent, ability, impact, numbers, durability and wins and losses, Freeman McNeil cannot hold Curtis Martin's jock strap. Period.
A lot of my argument has been made, but .5 yards is huge. Martin was never really a threat to break the long run. McNeil never had a great offensive line and was much more capable than Martin of making yards on his own. Martin was consistently good for a very long time, hence his huge lifetime numbers. Probably the best running back I've ever seen was Gayle Sayers, who averaged 5 yards a carry throughout his career. That's .5 more than McNeil and a full yard more than Martin. Sayers, like McNeil battled injuries and had a relatively short career, but you can't possibly tell me Martin is the better back because he was more durable. When I think of retiring a number I think of great players. IMHO Martin was a good player, but never great. That probably puts me in the minority here but that's the way I see it.
Aye-yigh, here it comes. Why can't Jets fans love Curtis Martin as a great Jet? I'll never understand spitting on one's own floor. Who cares whether it's how he ran, or that he didn't do it this way, or that way, or that the stars weren't aligned in Gemini or some crap. 1,697, hello. It's tiresome. Great Jet. That's all we need to embrace.
It's really all based to some extent on perceptions. Having watched the Jets for so many years you come away with certain impressions. Some may be accurate, others not. But some of the things I remember are: 1. Namath was amazing for his day. He just made passes very few others could make. He forced too many so he ended up with a lot of pics, but damn was he fun to watch. In all my years I never had more fun watching an athlete. Love him or hate him, he was pure entertainment, both on and off the field. 2. Maynard was truly an awesome receiver. Blazing speed and amazing hands. 3. I also used to love to watch George Sauer. He didn't have Maynard's speed but damn could he run routes and he probably had the best hands I've seen on a receiver. I'm sorry, but there's just no way someone like Chrebet compares to this guy. 4. Freeman McNeil was a great runner. Despite his injuries he was just able to do things on the field no other Jet running back has done. It's just the way I remember him. Unfortunately, he never played on great teams so we couldn't see how goodd he could really be. 5. Wesley Walker was simply amazing. Probably a better deep threat than Maynard. 6. Al Toon was also a lot of fun to watch. He made play after play. Again there's no way Chrebet is in his class. Toon was the much better possession receiver. 7. I remember Klecko and Gastineau constantly putting pressure on the opposing QB. They were just fun to watch despite what you thought of Mark's antics. 8. Super Bowl III - I watched every minute of this game and it still sticks in my mind. 9. Curtis Martin simply never impressed me. He's a great guy, a very good running back, but he just never seemed to be a huge threat. I remember too many short-yardage plays where he gets stuffed. And honestly, four yards a carry is simply not that great. I remember Martin getting a ton of yards on third and fifteen plays, but very little on third on one. It's just the way I remember it. Again, he was a great Jet and a great contributor. I just don't see him as a great player. Not the way I see some of the other guys above. 10. Everyone loves Chrebet because everyone loves it when the underdog achieves. But again, he wasn't in the same class as the receivers I mentioned above. And really that's what it's about when you retire someone's number. You retire it because they were a great player. Chrebet was never even the best receiver on his team. Again, everyone has their own takes on these things, but this is how I've viewed the Jets over the years. Young fans tend to think much more highly of current players. Heck, I remember a poll a few years back when the fans voted Vick the best QB of all time in a landslide. I'm like wtf, this is insane. But he was viewed that way because he was the QB of the future at that point. And we all know how that turned out.
