Lets try some perspective. First Jenkins was miserable in Carolina and wanted out. Second Jenkins is a NOSE TACKLE. In a 3-4 no less, in which the NT is the fat ass lynchpin to the whole defense. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FAT ASSES!!! You don't think most lineman put on massive amounts of weight during the offseason because they love shoving 12 Big Macs in their mouth when they can? This isn't really that much of an abnormality. I am very happy that we have a talented fat NT to clog the middle and take up double teams. It didn't work out so well last year when we had a small undersized NT. Third, let's not compare an NT being overweight and out of shape, to a QB being overweight and out of shape. Fine I give you that 290 might be an exaggeration for Russell. Let's say he was 280 and got down to 269 that was stated before. But being 269 with muscle is different than being 269 with flab. Coming out of college he was not exactly known for being a workout warrior with a ripped body. The guy was lazy then and he hasn't changed much. How much of that 269 is muscle? How much is fat? How much time did he spend in the wieghtroom getting into better shape for this season? You follow the logic? Comparing a NT to a QB is assinine.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Go back far enough and the Jets won the SB. You use 5 years because it is a reasonable number to assess the present state of affairs for the teams and make a reasonable comparison. Because beyond five years ago the roster, coaches, and organizational personnel were different (at least the vast majority). By looking at the past 5 years a reasonable person can assess the direction of the team and organization. Beyond that is irrelevent to the present state of affairs. Nice way to avoid the question. By the way looking at the Raiders the last 5 years, how do you assess the direction of the team and organization?
The Raiders, direction wise, are a mess until proven otherwise. I just find it funny when you guys look down your nose at them and talk about "the chaos in Oakland" etc. The Jet fans have been buying into a new 5 year plan every 3 or 4 years since 1969 and it never ends in the promised land. I've seen the Raiders be a mess before in the '90's and come out of it under their crazy owner. What have you seen that makes you think Tangini is really any better than Herm, or Groh, or Parcells, etc.? Again, 4-12 is 4-12.
So much of your post is presenting opinion, or things you want to be true, as fact. Russell is not lazy, and he's not fat. Doesn't sound like a lazy fat guy to me. I could find more but I don't have all day.
Wow, you can really talk around a subject or question. Once again, I have no idea what the hell any of that has to do with the point I was making. I never said anything about a "5 year plan" where did you get that from? What I said was when you are evaluating a team, ANY team, you look at the past 5 years because it is a reasonable number. It doesn't matter if there were 3 regime changes during that time period, it gives you reasonable amount of CURRENT data to assess the current state of affairs of the organization - Coaching turnaround, payroll, playoff appearances, current roster. Beyond that those things become greatly irrelevent. It would be like saying "The Jets are going to make the playoffs because they won the SB in 69 and we were great under Parcells!" That is why 5 years is a good cutoff number. And based on the last 5 years, I am much happier with the direction the Jets are heading than the Raiders. And I thought we were talking about the current state of affairs. Why do you keeping talking about 10 years ago, the 90s, and 1969?
Where did I say I was stating "facts?" Of course I was presenting my opinion. The only thing I stated as fact was that coming out of college Russell didn't exactly have a rep for being in the best of shape or a "workout warrior", and a bit lazy - that was not exactly a secret. Actually most of my post was presenting you with questions, explaining body mass, and explaining the difference between a QB and NT being overweight. I like how you keep trying to spin what I say and avoid questions. Thank you for the quote from Kiffin. It is good that Russell is at least attempting to change his attitude. But I have to wonder with all the offseason organizational turmoil and bad press they got about Russell last year, how much of it is exaggerated (which would not be anything new with NFL FOs and CSs).
Talk around the subject? Did you read my first sentence? I said they are "a mess until proven otherwise!" Do I still need to dissect the last five years if I think they're a mess? And by the way, you would not feel the need to do a five year look if the Jets were 12-4 and the Raiders were 4-12 last year. Believe me, a few years ago I used to come on here and say, "Yeah the Raiders were 5-11 this year but they won the AFC 3 years ago..." You know what I'd hear back? "Don't live in the past, blah blah blah..." The Raiders are 4-12, and it's certainly part of a pattern. But the Jets were 4-12 too. Clearly you think it's an aberration.
As far as a NT and and QB comparison, I was here discussing Javon Walker. Some made it seem like the end of the world that a WR who is coming off knee surgery is not in game shape. I pointed out Jenkins as another guy who is clearly not in game shape in May and some Jet fans dragged Russell into it. Not me. As far as me avoiding questions, i thought I answered your work ethic and conditioning quesitons with Kiffin's quote. As I said, I could show many more quotes from beat reporters, teammates, etc., saying that he's been working his tail off all offseason on conditioning, film study, etc., but I don't want to spend all day cutting and pasting. Getting back on topic, I don't think it's a big deal that Walker needs to work on his conditioning in early May. He'll be in shape for training camp. I'm more worried about his injury history.
So in conclusion, Javon Walker is struggling but it's all good because Kris Jenkins is a fatass. Makes sense to me.
Nah, it's more like "who cares if our expensive nose guard is overweight, I hear Javon Walker wasn't in game shape at an OTA in early May." :wink:
And Walker is not an expensive 6 year 55 million dollar 4th WR?:lol: he has had 1 good season....back in 2004
Jets coach Eric Mangini said NT Kris Jenkins was at 360 pounds for camp. Jenkins struggled with weight issues in Carolina when he nearly reached 400 pounds. Per his contract with the Jets, Jenkins will be weighed ten times per season with a $25,000 bonus on the line each time. Haloti Ngata 340 Vince Wilfork 335 Corey Williams 335 Shaun Rogers 340 Albert Haynesworth 330
So wait, we're wrong for discussing NFL topics in the NFL forum because of our own perceived team issues? Using that logic we should pretty much shut this forum down. Furthermore, Kris Jenkins isn't overweight, the reports are stating that he lost weight and is closer to the weight mandated by the team. But I'll play along. Even if he was overweight, like you so eagerly pointed out to defend Walker, it's only May. So even if he did need to lose more weight, at the rate he is going he could still stand to lose another 10-20 pounds before the season started if he needed to. It's a non-issue that you drug into this thread to deflect attention away from another potential dreadful signing by Oakland. You may not be concerned about Walker, but you should be. The guy has a ton to prove and any negative reports coming out on him would make me nervous if it were the Jets who signed him to that deal. Someone on the Jets forum suggested that we should sign him earlier in the offseason and I was against it then. If we signed him to the deal that Oakland did I would have jumped out of a window.
If Coles or Cotchery had 69 catches for 1,084 yards at 15.7 yards a catch with 8 TDs like Walker did in 2006 you'd be saying they should be in the Pro Bowl. Hell, he had 17 catches for 220 yards in the first two games last year before he got hurt. There's no question the guy can play. I certainly question his health but it's a fallacy to say he had one good season and it was in 2004...
To that last comment, I would suggest developing some hobbies outside of watching football! As I mentioned earlier, you guys start a gleeful thread anytime anything happens in Oakland. The false "JaMarcus is 300 pounds" story merited a few pages of posts. Why should it bother you if I point out some of your problems? This is a Jets message board, isn't it? As far as dragging Jenkins into a thread about Walker, I invite you to read any, and I mean any thread about the Raiders. If I had a nickel for every time I got involved in a serious football conversation only to have people drag it into 20 other things that have nothing to do with the topic, I'd buy the Raiders myself. Jenkins is only relevant to this conversation because the Raiders and Jets both spent huge money on risky players. The Raiders threw BIG money at a WR with a bad knee and attitude problems. The Jets threw BIG money at a 400 pound (yes that's what he weighed at the beginning of the offseason, and he was not a nose tackle last year) defensive tackle who has had injury and attitude problems. there is a common thread there; huge money for risky players.
So another mere 30 pound loss will have him in svelte Albert Haynesworth territory? I still contend he's overweight.
No, this is an NFL discussion board, and this is a topic about the Raiders. The Jets forum is a couple of links up. You completely took the thread off track when you brought Jenkins into the mix. The Jenkins signing may or may not work out, but I don't see what significance that bears over Walker's news. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't bother discussing other team's question marks because we have question marks of our own? I see you get your panties in a bunch whenever we bash the Raiders, but you had no problem bashing the Falcons on the Matt Ryan deal. When bad news pertaining to a team surfaces, that team usually gets criticized. As it stands, the Raiders have been providing bad press by the truckload in recent years. You guys continue to defend them and claim we are exaggerating their issues, yet they continue to lose. Obviously we must be on to something.
NJ, you are a good poster but you are way too sensitive towards the Raiders. They suck man, and they will be open for bashing on any NFL forum. The Jets suck too based on last season and if I were to visit other boards discussing the Jets I'd be greeted by the same thing. When your team sucks, you are fighting a losing battle trying to defend them.
