Most importantly a Vinnie who knew and accepted the fact that he was done and was willing to be the backup and a mentor. Unlike Vinnie our Done Qb will not go into the night as gracefully.
Obviously, b/c Jim Brown would easily have been able to evade 2-3 Broncos who were hitting him as he was taking the handoff. Now it's Charlie Weis who was the reason for our great O? The same Charlie Weis who had his playcalling duties stripped in 1998? Brady went 16-0 last year and if the D could have held the Giants he'd have another Championship. How many Championships did Weis have w/o Brady? How many did Belichick have as a HC w/o Brady? Belichick was on the verge of losing his job before #12 stepped on the field in 2001.
Brady and the Pats have zero championships since their staff was dismantled. The Pats had their best overall team in terms of talent last year. You also forget that we had both Henning and Weiss on that staff and Weiss was in his first year as OC when Parcells took over the play calling. Weiss was clearly instrumental in developing Brady and Brady like Vinny when Weiss was here didn't throw picks. Brady had melt downs in Denver, SD, And in last years SB without the support of Weiss who was outright great at using screens and misdirection plays, just the kind of thing that would have killed the Giants in last years SB.
Curtis Martin will be in the Hall of Fame and that's usually what the Jets go by, except for Joe Klecko who should be in it. As much as I loved Wayne Chrebet and have a #80 jersey myself, if Al Toon and Wesley Walker didn't get their numbers retired, there's no way Chrebet should.
I wish we could have a QB w/ so mnay meltdowns that he has lost just 3 postseason games. How did he melt down in the SB? he led the team on a great drive to score a TD for what should have been the winning score but the D let them down. they beat SD 2 years ago, right? So NE lost the SB last year b/c they didn't have Weis? Weis made Vinny and Brady- how come he couldn't do anything w/ Bledsoe? and how's Weis doing at ND?
He stunk in SD and threw what should have been a game ending pick only to have the Marty jinx kick in. He played terribly in the Giant game and he outright sucked against Denver. Charlie Weiss wasn't the QB coach or the OC in NE. He was however the RB coach in NE and lobbied for them to Draft Martin who made the pro bowl and rookie of the year under Weiss. He was the reciever coach when Terry Glenn as a rookie had 1100 yards. His first year as oc was for us in 97 when we had a nice little turn around. Fact Weiss was on the Pats staff under Parcells that went to the SB before Brady. He was on the OC for the Jets in one of our 3 teams that advanced to the AFC finals and he was the OC for all 3 NE SB.
There must be some kind of super criteria for QBs that nobody in the world outside of a few posters on this board are privy to. Even Tom Brady isn't good enough to make TGG posters happy, so where do you turn? You must complete every pass and win every Super Bowl otherwise you're no good, you've melted down and you can't get to the next level. Amazing.
and yet he still managed to get his team in position to win the game? amazing, isn't it? and he did it w/o the great Charlie Weis! So now Weis made Curtis too?:rofl: How did Curtis lead the league in rushing w/o Weis? Now Weis gets credit for the 1990 Supr Bowl when he was a low level assistant? It seems the only thing this guy cannot do is win at ND.
If he just had a little more TV exposure there he could land some recruits and be on his way. It takes time to build a program from the ground up. :grin:
:grin: The guy made Terry Glenn, He made Curtis Martin, he made Tom Brady. He is the greatest assistant coach of all time. No wonder all those guys fell apart after Weis left them
Weiss didn't make any of them, it just so happens that Vinny and Brady, both very talented guys made less mistakes and took their teams further in the playoffs with Weiss on board in a key coaching spot than either of them have done without him on board. Herm proved that it doesn't take coaching to get performance, both Curtis and Larry Johnson had their best year under Herm. Maybe coaching doesn't matter at all? Who knows maybe talent doesn't matter at all? Maybe Pennington could only thrive under Hackett? Maybe the Jets are just as talented as the Giants? Maybe Chad is better than Eli?
First 9 playoff games with Weiss 3 INTS. 3 Lombardi's. Last 8 playoff games without Weiss 9 INTS no Lombardi's. Brady also had 3 multiply INT games in playoffs since Weiss left, none before when the SB's were won. Brady has been just as good even better without Weiss if you don't include the big games. Maybe Weiss was the only guy who knew how to read defensive signals?
If/when Curtis Martin gets in the Hall of Fame, the team will probably retire #28. Until then, they probably just won't issue it and keep it unofficially retired. They've kept #90 (Dennis Byrd) and #59 (Kyle Clifton) unofficially retired since both players left the game. They'll probably do the same with #80 for some time. But to answer the original topic of the thread, I would retire #28 long before #80. Martin was a Hall-of-Fame calibur player. Chrebet was a fan favorite local boy who was never even the best player on his own team. The guy played with a lot of heart, but he's not enshrinement material. He belongs in the "Hall of Very Good."
Curtis, becasue he is 100% class and a LOCK HOF'er. Chrebet was a good Jets but lets face it...he's no HOF'er, and I wouldn't retire his # based on heart. Not to mention Chrebet is a bit of a prick in person. The little guy is so full of himself. As least he was the time I met him.
There is also this... Scrimmage yards per game- Martin- *103.8 McNeil- 76.6 *8th place among retired backs (Brown 125.5, Sims 119.6, Sanders 118.9, Davis 113.9, Payton 111.9, Faulk 108.8, Dickerson 105.5)
Curt will get his number retired because he's got the HOF pedigree and the carried himself off the field as being on of the greatest character players to ever play in the NFL... Wayne's greatness will always be remembered by the fact that he doesn't need his number retired for people to know what he meant to his organization...
