I think my pre-K cousin got the reference. I'm just trying to figure out why you invoked it, seemingly at random.
I'd have serious reservations about giving up a first, but in the end I would grit my teeth and probably do it. I think there's a legitimate argument to be made for not giving up a first, but I don't agree with it. With that said, there's no way this costs more than second-rounder. There just isn't that much competition for him. Like I've said previously, cap considerations really are not at issue, given the direction of the CBA.
I'm sayin yes, Chad/Kellen are both lesser options than Farve, and it would give Kellen a strong armed vet QB to learn from. But I wouldn't give up the world for the guy. He's obviously on his way out and if we have to give up more than a third its probally too much.
Well, you claimed to be using the Socratic method of debate. That's where the Socrates reference came from. Not that random actually.... maybe not that funny, but for Christ's sake could you lighten up in this thread? Most people are agreeing with you but you react to differences of opinion like they're poison to you. And would you really give up a first for Favre. Really?
At first, I was on the fence, but, here's my thinking: Offensively, Favre is going to have at least a solid line and a bunch of WRs who can play to his strengths, and are very flexible as receivers--last year, they adjusted to both Chad and Kellen when they had to, having some level of success with each. And now we add Keller. The key is Jones--can he be '06 quality? It's crucial we keep the pressure off of Favre, especially early when he's learning the system. What really won me over is this: Favre was great last year, but pretty average (at best) in '06. Let's say his production drops and we get his '06 numbers...the Packers went 8-8 and almost made the playoffs. I think we have a better supporting cast then they did that year, so that's promising. My final point is that the most similar situation is probably Montana with the Chiefs, who was coming off of injuries. He made the playoffs in each of his two years in KC, and I believe was in the AFC title game the first of those years. Therefore, I reluctantly approve a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Favre, because we can definitely be a contender if Favre repeats his '07 season, and still get in the playoffs if he repeats his '06 season.
I think there's got to be a presumption that we're a "win now" team in order for me to justify giving up a first. Not saying you have that presumption but I am saying I don't, despite all the rhetoric we've been reading by "sports writers" that we're a "win now" team. Our O-line looks better but it's yet unproven. Our entire Defense looks much batter (on paper) but, again, unproven. We lack a prototypical, TO-type, Randy Moss-like WR and Coles is one astroturf slam this side of a concussion or other injury again. Our running game seems like a patch-job of extras brought in to see what we can do, because there's still some doubt as to whether Jones is really the man Our TEs look good but again, unproven. ] About the only thing you can say with clarity is that Favre is a better QB and bringing him in is an upgrade. But that alone doesn't make us a "win now" for all the abovementioned reasons, so I'm not for trading away a 1st Round pick. I don't think I like a 2nd either.
I remember Neil O'Donnell was supposed to save our team at one point too. I remember Ronnie Lott, Leonard Marshall, Jumbo Elliott, Boomer Esiason, you name it. Haven't won a championship with any of them. I'll happily stand up and eat my crow if we get Farve, make the playoffs, and make it past the first round. But let's face it, if we make this move we're another year from knowing if Clemmens is the answer or not. And next year we'll be in an even worse place than we are now. Same lack of information about Clemmens, no Chad, Farve wavering on retirement (or not), and Erik Ainge riding the pine. I'd much rather see us take steps that will give us a chance to be good for a few season than take a chance on a one-shot "Golden Bullet". I've been a fan too long and they never seem to work out.
This is the sticking point. We are not a win now. If we were a win now, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Do you know why? Because it would be the last piece of the puzzle. But this team is nowhere near showing that it only needs one more piece of the puzzle.
I see no reason for us to take a one year detour back to 9-7 or 10-6 while we should be finding our QB for the next decade. Particularly given that he's no guarantee of success even in the limited terms I described above. I do understand why Mangini and Tannebaum would feel differently though. 9-7 looks a whole hell of a lot better to them than 6-10 or 7-9 at this point, even if it does nothing for the Jets beyond next season. There's a crapload of Woody's money on the table and he's going to be pissed if it doesn't turn into wins.
I think Favre would make us a win now. The QB is the only outstanding major question mark. The next biggest question mark is depth, but generally if a lot of any teams players get hurt then they are usually screwed anyway.
Max 2nd round pick + Deal Pennington + Minimum 2 year palying in Green and White = Pull the trigger for a shot (that is better then it stands today)
Sorry for stealing your thunder, WhiteShoes. I reiterated what you are saying about "win now" without having read your post and arrived at my opinion independently, but at least that shows me I'm not the only one thinking this way. The Jets are not one or two pieces away from the whole puzzle. And like you say (and it's a very good point), the Packers may be one piece away and nobody sees them pulling out all stops to get Favre back under center.
Which team in the NFL do you think is way better than the Jets with Favre throwing for 4K and 28TD's?
This is always the thing that makes football so intriquing. You always have a shot. And sometimes taking that shot is the difference between doing it and just wishing you could do it. So there's always going to be that side of me (it's in all of us, I'm sure) that says, "Give it a shot." Look, if Tom Brady were available, I'll give up three 1st Rounders right now. That's a shot. But for me, Brett Favre?.... eh..... I don't share John Madden's fellacial adorations.
