Why? I know many here consider it a forgone conclusion that the Jets will be switching to a 34 sooner than later, but I'm really having a hard time understanding why. I get that Mangini has had a lot of experience seeing 3-4's in his days with the Pats, but remember that his specialty there was with the DBs. Also consider that coach Sutton only has 1 year of experience in a 34 andMarcin has none, and while Herrmann's system at UM was a 3-4 base, it was really more of an odd hybrid D. The coaching aspect is a concern, but the thing that really bothers me is the fact that it just simply wouldn't be the best for the players we have. Say the Jets were to draft Mario Williams at #4, look at what they have: DE: Ellis, Williams, Thomas, Ball DT: Robertson, Von Oelhoffen, Pope, Pouha, Reed OLB: Barton, Kassell, Hobson, McClover MLB: Vilma, (Kassell), Chatham Three effective players at least at DE and DT for a solid rotation, and four Linebackers capable of at least starting at 3 spots. Kassell is a guy who can play Strongside or Middle, if Vilma was injured. You could question Kassell's speed, but he's a smart guy who can get to the football, him over Hobson at S-Side would be a big help against the run in my mind. The obvious benefit here is that Vilma and Barton would not be put in a 3-4 which, to my knowledge, neither has any experience in at any level. Barton at Weakside generally never had that much traffic or blockers impeding him, but now, with the inevitable addition of a passrushing 34 OLB, would be moved inside, where he'd constantly have a OG coming at him. Vilma is in the same boat, and we all know he's at his best when he's in space and can run to make a play. Looking at the DL, I think you have a perfect set at both DE and DT. Rotation is clearly a huge factor in the Belichek system, but that carries over whether it's 34 or 43. You have two big, starting defensive ends that are adept againt both the run and the pass, giving us a break for once not having a true NT inside. Thomas wouldn't be getting his chance to start, but I like what he brings as a 3rd DE, he can make plays from time to time. At DT, Dewayne wouldn't have to move to NT, which I think would have just been a brutal move at this point in his career. He's still trying to adjust to being "Warren Sapp", to throw a new, much more crucial role at him might bury him. Kimo has played 34 DE forever, but he's got the smarts and skills to be a DT with ease, and Pope is just a solid guy. What I'm NOT saying is that a 3-4 will never be in the Jets future, or used with some regularity this season, it can be a very effective weapon with the players we have. Few teams have a front 7 that can slide to a 3-4 (or vice versa) with just one quick sub, the Jets are one of them. I look forward to seeing it taken advantage of, but I'd put off on the wholesale change talk at the moment. In the future, it'll definitely be an option, once we find a true NT (or Pouha develops), once we realize what exactly it is we have in Dewayne, once we get our LB starters defined, etc. Getting back to the draft aspect, I'd definitely look to add a hybrid passrushing type in there somewhere, and not necessarily one of the big names (Wimbley/Lawson at #29). A guy like Mark Anderson from Bama who should be there Rd 3, or Ray Edwards from Purdue; a guy who we can develop as a stand up rusher, but also have a role in the short term. And if they don't draft Mario, well... I don't know. Hadn't really thought it out...
I just posted something on the LBs. I disagree that we have 3 of 4 LB slots filled... http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=4412
Well hurricane people get hurt, and we know this better than any other team in team in the league, i still think our concrete base will be a 4-3...with the 3-4 being used in special occasions, leading about to like 10 or so plays a game. Mario williams is a guy who can take charge of a game and dominate, abraham was our star, but mario can be our superstar... Ellis, Oelhoffen, robertson, are our solid starters in the defensive line, i think we need 4 solid starters in the DLINE, the Dline is just as critical as a Oline. While thomas is a good backup, that's all he exactly is a backup, ellis, robertson, Oelhoffen, and mario williams would be a killer line... Oelhoffen will play NT for us, if somehow we don't take mario because somebody picked him, we have insurance in kimo.. To play our other end, then we can draft ferguson. If we draft mario, then we can draft a OT in the second or third round.
I actually agree with you, I think that the Jets are poorly suited to the 3-4 defense. Our 43 unit in 2004 was one of the best in the league and it performed that way with lackluster talent in the defensive backfield because we had an uncanny ability to put pressure on the QB. The only difference last year was that we didn't have a nose tackle to take the pressure of of Robertson and then injuries crippled the unit. If we were to replace Abraham with Mario Williams and then aquire somebody to finally replace Ferguson we would be a top unit again. Going into the 34 I have doubts about Robertson and Vilma, two keys to our defense.
Yea but if you truly look at this....Tangini will be drafting to transition to the 3-4 and give us those "hybrid" players. I actually am liking what these two are doing here. They are coming into town and installing something. We are left over with all sorts of past regime stuff and finally they have been cleaning house. Schott and Sutton wont be getting any HC looks within the next few years. We are signing based on depth and we all know that we are two to three years away from serious contention unless we have a miracle season. Tangini is building for the future. This is how the re building process goes. Cheap stop gaps to give us a legit spot for a miracle season. Smart football players who know the 3-4 who can teach our draft picks and backups how to play in these schemes. By next season we will have a better look on who fits into our plans and who just flat out doesnt fit. Im a big Robertson fan but I truly feel he is gonna be an odd man out. With the draft I truly feel we will pray Mario or Leinart falls to us and if he doesnt then we will trade down if we can find a good deal if not we will sit and take D Brick. Gabe Watson will be heavily looked at in Round 2 also we should draft a NT in Day 1. With the #4 it should become strickly Mario or Leinart. If neither drops we see if we can trade down if not we draft D Brick. With the #29 we should go BAP looking at Gilles/Lawson/Carpenter/Mangold/McNeil With #35 we should look at players like Watson/McNeil/Gilles This draft will determine our future and what to do with certain players, lets rebuild and see how things turn out. Youth
I agree with YIS, we are definitely drafting for versatility, but as far as why we go to the 3-4 when our personnel is best for the 4-3: I thinkpart of it is that we want to get people used to playing in the 3-4 sooner rather than later.
Exactly this is a rebuilding process and no matter what anyone thinks this is atleast a 3 year process and we are in year 1. We will build through the draft and save our cap space then be big players in FA around year 3. When we will have enough young talent and solid depth and a team attitude and be ready to make a run around that time. Most people dont wanna beleive that though. They feel that just this year we are gonna add superb talent and run away to the SB. Jokes on who? Youth
Mario Will As good as a 4-3 sounds...I think that KVO is getting a little too old to fit the mould of a 4-3. He should come off the bench! Yes, he is fresh off of a Super Bowl ring, but I see our 3-4 being a lot more effective especially with Kassel signed. Ellis - D. Rob - M-Will (if we draft him that is) would be good enough. Our 3-4, 4-3 scheme all depends on who we draft...(williams, ferguson, carpenter, mangold, you know the routine etc....) I'm just hoping we get Williams - he is the best choice. Bryan Thomas doesn't fill the void of J-Abe...Not even close! I'm confident in Pennington! But...that is a whole other can of worms. I'm all for Mario at #4 if he is available.
Mangini has never come out and said we will be playing strictly a 34 or 43. For whatever reason alot of Jet fans want to believe we are switching to the 34(why I'm not sure). The fact is, we will be playing a hybrid defense that shows alot of different looks w/ the end result hopefully being to create mismatches and confussion. What that means is we need versatile and smart defenders who have the ability to grasp alot of different concepts and also fit in the scheme physically. If the concept works correctly, no one will be the odd man out as long as they are open to playing different schemes and are productive. In fact D rob is a great player for this scheme due to his unique skillset and his ability to create mismatches. Finally, Mario Williams is a great fit for us, b/c like D rob(although for different reasons) he has a unique skillset capable to fitting in many schemes and allowing his freak athleticism to take over and make plays.
i totally agree that the 4-3 is probably the best defense for us. But people who question Vilma don't realize that guys his size have been very successful in the 3-4. The fins lined up in a 3-4 a lot under Saban using Taylor as the hybrid pass rusher. Zach Thomas, a LB smaller than Vilma still had an amazing season so I am not really too worried about Vilma if we switch.
