SD raped the Giants yet the Giants are the team with a SB championship. I guess maybe the Giants didn't get raped after all.
My point is simply this--if the Giants had to give up that much just to swap QBs #4 for #1 with Eli refusing to go to SD, how much would it have taken for us to move up from #17 this year or #6 last year when Ryan had no problem going to Atlanta? It's easy to say, a lot harder to do.
Manning played well in the playoffs that year and is a good QB. My opinion is that Rivers is the better QB. Even if Manning is a slightly better QB I still think they got raped. Look at everything they gave up. If Manning were way better than I can see doing it, but I think you'd be hard pressed to make an argument that Eli Manning is way better than Phillip Rivers. While Manning made clutch plays in the superbowl victory, he also had a dominant defense, dominant running game and dominant receiver to help. I don't see any reason why Rivers couldn't have done at least as well as Manning if not better in that situation.
Agreed. Manning didn't pound and pressure Brady all day and other QBs all year. He did a nice job for a few weeks but the D got them there and Tyree saved him/them.
I'm not sure that it's tougher to go from 6 to 2 or just taking Flacco with our 6 is from going from 4 to 1. Don't forget Eli was the No. 1 pick Ryan went 3 we had 3 trading partners not 1.
Roethlisberger started 13 games and went 13-0...but that wasn't the Steelers' plan for him. They had no idea that he'd have that kind of success as a rookie... Tommy Maddox was their starter and we was injured very early in the season... Roethlisberger also benefited from having a dominant offensive line, a great power running game lead by Jerome Bettis, and one of the best defenses in football. So what I said is true: Roethlisberger was not an IMMEDIATE starter -- the fact that he started so early wasn't planned at all. Injuries just happen and sometimes a star is born -- see Tom Brady.
Beyond me thinking that Rivers is completely overrated, the Giants won a SB with Manning. What they gave up is meaningless to them, they got their QB and won a SB with him. I don't think Manning is a consistently great QB but he stepped up and was great in their run to the playoffs and might win multiple SBs before his run is over. In hindsight the Giants would have been better off keeping the picks and drafting Big Ben who is by far the best QB of the three. My point is I would love to see the Jets one of these years be so convinced in a QB that they do whatever it takes to get him, then develop him and build their team around him.
While I wouldn't make the argument that Eli Manning is much better than Phillip Rivers, you could make the argument that SD has done less with more over all talent than any team in football the last few years. The Giants have done more with less are better run, better coached and have drafted and played the FA market as good as anyone in the league. Manning also has a better arm than Rivers and the Meadowlands is a notoriously tough place to throw in December. Maybe that was something they considered.
Pettigrew was just one example of the 2 dozen or so players I take before Sanchez. One way or another we need a blocking TE.. If we take one later, fine... But, Sanchez is a huge project who I think is way overrated right now.
My point is that it's not a stretch to think they could have won that superbowl with Rivers. Eli didn't do anything Rivers isn't capable of during there superbowl run. They got there guy, but he's not significantly better than Rivers and cost them a significant price. I doubt he will, but that's my opinion. The Giants superbowl was won mostly because of a dominant defense that held the most prolific offense in the history of the NFL to 14 points in the superbowl. Eli did make clutch throws, but they only put up 17 on the Pats. That Pats defense wasn't a great defense. This whole conversation is hindsight, but I absolutely agree with this. I don't disagree with that either. This doesn't change the fact that the Giants gave up a ton of value for a minor upgrade at best. Personally I feel it's a downgrade. Of course, this is all hindsight too and easy for me to say now.
You are correct on the situation, but I was point to the fact that he did start the majority of his rookie season and was successful, in large part to the defense and runnign game of his team. Most QB's are not drafted to start year one. Lst year was a fluke, as I'm sure you know. No matter how any games they start in the NCAA they need a year of two to adjust and become a good NFL QB 90% of the time. Flacco benefited from a great D and running game ala Big Ben. Rayn was a complete supprise. I would lay down a lot of money on none of this years QB calss comming anywhere close to his rookie season.
I saw the Jets Nation interview with Sanchez and I must admit I was thinking the same thing while watching it. But then I started thinking "hey this is a Jets shows, of course he's gonna talk about his experiences with the Jets and not other teams". It did sound like we were gaga about him when he talked about going out to Dinner with Woody, Tanny and Rex, but I'm sure a lot of other teams are kissing his to the same degree.
I think it's a huge stretch. The plays Eli made in the Dallas game right before halftime and in the SB under pressure would not be made by Rivers he simply doesn't have the arm to make those plays. Rivers playoff numbers are a huge departure downward from his excellent regular season numbers where Mannings playoff numbers are slightly better than his rather pedestrian regular season numbers. During the SB run he put three playoff games together that Rivers has never touched in the playoffs.
I think the jets getting sanchez all matters on the first and second pick of the draft, if the lions draft jason smith instead of matthew stafford then we have a chance at getting him, my thoughts are if stafford falls he'll b pickd before sanchez and then at that point id see sanchez possibly getting past pick number 9 and at that stage itll b much easier for us to get him.
They swapped Rivers and picks that turned into Nate Kaeding, Shawn Merriman and Roman Oben for Manning. The deal looks incredibly lopsided in San Diego's favor until you factor in the fact that the Giants won a Super Bowl shortly thereafter with Manning at QB and playing a vital role. As much as I don't like Manning as a QB, and I don't, I think the Giants got the better of the deal. Of course they had to win a Super Bowl to make that true and San Diego may still come out ahead if Rivers stays as good as he has looked recently. It'll take a Super Bowl win on their part to seal that deal.
I think Sanchez is going to be great. Arm stregth and accuracy, BUT I don't think he's dropping. My preferences: 1. Sanchez 2. Moreno 3. Wells 4. Maclin
It's really out of our hands there's 16 teams that can take him before we do or a team can trade down in front of us but if he's there at #17 and some of the top guys are off i wouldnt mind getting sanchez. He's a talented QB with a strong arm , good accuracy and can move around in the pocket. If we get a QB i would want him over Freeman and all the others (As stafford will most likely be gone in the top 10)
Winston, to be fair, River has had far more treacherous playoff schedules and two years ago played a playoff game and a half with a torn ACL. I think the jury's still out. Eli's playoff numbers are nothing to write home about...they certainly don't support any argument that he is mostly responsible for their success and is irreplaceable. Ultimately, I'd say that besides his Super Bowl run, where he was above average against teams San Diego would have ran over, he has proven to be an utterly detriment to his team in every other season come playoff time. I think you'll see the Giants fans have short memories if he has another playoff debacle this year. -X-
