Yet somehow your 4-12 record looks better with a healthy QB, Randy Moss, Joey Porter, and LaMont Jordan? doesnt matter when we lost the games, we both had the same record. and if i can remember we beat you? so i guess the Raiders just didnt wanna play will that be the next answer? and another reason why the raiders are better than the jets were because they lost games on a tough schedule? thats the mark of a quality team. give it a rest
Tom Brady, Richard Seymour, Corey Dillon, Asante Samuel, Ben Watson, Matt Light, Vince Wilfork, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, and Adam Vinatieri are among the most talented players at their respective positions. (I know some are no longer with the Patriots.)
RaiderJoe, I'm not sure if you're aware but it's not the 70s anymore. All of the super bowl teams in the 21st century have been high character teams. There is much heavier media scrutiny today and teams now have to be high character so the media doesn't affect them.
First were talking superbowl years and not present day roster.(so they don't have to be on roster still) You can make a case for five of those players being among the most talented T brady, R seymour, A Vinatieri(a kicker), Ty Law and R Harrison. The rest no one would consider among the best at their position. . Would love to see your ranking , and how you seriously think the other players , are near top of their positions. T Bruschi was the heart of Patriots defense, but you put him on another team, and he might not have even made the roster. Corey Dillon- Lmao.
First its knowledgeable. Dosen't take much to impress you. Okay thats your best and most knowledgeable poster. Lmao Thats your opinion and there no need for me to respond. (well you know I can't let it go) Wow you have to be one most knowledgeable poster to make this comment. Yeah I keep forgetting how much more you know about football than the rest of us. He really doesn't know about football at all really. He's more of a bartender anyways. Thats Vince Lombardi stuff right there. Thats deep and so insightful. I apologize for not being able to tell how much he knows about football. Thats the only comments I have seen this guy make.
Talent is subjective. It is not a cold hard statistic. Watson has loads of talent compared to other tight ends. I'd probably put him in the top 5 of TEs based on talent. Then you'll call me a moron and post his stats. We won't get anywhere with this.
Yea That raven team had alot of high character guys. (R Lewis and J Lewis) B billick is all about character. I love how you take a five year window(when we know Patriots won three) and try and use the high character team card. You keep making posts like this, and you will surpass Plinko, as Ganggreen most knowledgeable poster.
Ok, well let's take it from the other end Mr. Smartass. How have the low character teams done recently? The Raiders completely fell apart and were the joke of the NFL last year (besides the 49ers). Also, Terrell Owens completely tore down 2 franchises with his low character attitude - and that's one low character guy. The game 5 years ago is much different then the game today... and that's why 5 years is enough of a sample to see what the trends are. Football needs a "team effort" more then any other sport because every success from every single guy on the field directly translates to how the next guy does. This happens in the other sports, but definitely not as intense and important as in football. It's impossible to take your arguments after you tell someone he spelt a word wrong... but he actually spelt it right :rofl2:
Look at posts 107 and 108. Green Machine pulled a fast one. Mod or no mod, I gotta back Raiderjoe here.
I am still wondering how a Raider fan found his way on a Jets board...Not that I dont mind it, but still...
First i didn't see you address the(2000) Ravens . Do you consider them to have high character guys. (J Lewis and Ray Lewis etc) . 2002 Buccanears had high character players(W Sapp, S Rice , etc) Second the Eagles going to the superbowl(something they couldn't without TO) A non healthy TO still had a monster superbowl. Hey there high character player D MCNabb played well, than there was a good chance that Eagles would have won a superbowl. Third Lets see how your high character guys, versus great athlethes with questionable character does next year in your division. Great character(jets and Patriots) versus Dolphins(questionable character) . Also I will show you how silly your point was - eventually there going to be alot of talent teams with questionable character, that wins a superbowl.(silly argument that you can't have guys with questionable talent and win a superbowl). Fourth - You can have your W Chrebets + C Martin(two classy high character guys) I will take MY R Moss(questionable character) every time. You still need playmakers on the field . B romanowski might have been a cheater and a dirty football player but he sure made the Raider defense alot better. BTW . HE did spell the word wrong . Big deal, as I was busting his chops. IF spelling correctly was a sign of intelligence. Than im an idiot. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
A perfect example is John Abraham vs. Teddy Bruschi. I think we'd both agree that Abe has more talent - correct? Well John Abraham was a baby in the 2004 playoffs and wouldn't play because he was afraid to hurt himself in his contract year. All the talent in the world and a top 5 pass rusher in football, yet he's useless because his low character and team spirit keeps him off the field. Bruschi on the other hand has a stroke and almost dies... yet his first thoughts are "Shit I'm not going to be able to play for the Pats." Even after everyone says he'll be out for the year, he works hard and rehabs so he can come in and play for New England. He played hard and played like he hadn't missed a beat from the start. If John Abraham had played, I guarantee you that he wouldn't have made much of an impact. The Ravens and the Bucs did have high character guys at the time. The only three guys I can think of on those two teams that are "money and self first" are Jamal Lewis, Warren Sapp, and Simeon Rice. Jamal Lewis was not in any trouble at the time and had no pressure at all from the media; making his low off-the-field character irrelevant. He was a team player when he was younger and he and Holmes led them to the championship on the ground. Sapp and Rice are guys that aren't liked by many, but they played for the team and not for money in the 2002 season and Tampa Bay won it all. The Dolphins had a lot of low character guys (Boston, ricky williams, etc.) but they were all non-factors for the team and Miami relies on guys with good character such as Thomas and Taylor to keep that team moving. They're going to miss another high character guy in Sam Madison who has departed. Randy Moss' run-ins with the media, the team, and his minor injuries have made him disappear these past 2 season. I did not see a single touchdown catch by Moss in any highlight reel so he's definitely not the Randy Moss of old if he has negative things going around. Also, Curtis Martin played through ankle injuries, some minor some major, almost every year in his career and still had the amazing 1,000 yard streak going. You want low character guys with talent so be it. Enjoy it. But when they're all bitching for a contract and because of injuries I hope you enjoy a team that breaks completely apart like the 2005 Eagles. The Eagles made it to the super bowl in 2004 because Terrell Owens shut up, battled back from injury, and decided to be a team player for once in his life. TO was loved for his desire to play for Philly in the SB... and wasn't a trouble maker until calling out his QB during the offseason. Also, this has been bothering me... who were the low character guys on the 90's Cowboys? I was too young to remember but the only one I can think of is Michael Irvin, and he was a guy with off-the-field trouble. Great team player on the field. Other then that guys like Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Jay Novachek, etc. seem like high character guys to me. Back to the orginial topic at hand, the Raiders should definitely be on this list. The only way that the Raiders are going to be successful is if guys like Randy Moss and Lamont Jordan decide to stop bitching about being hurt or not getting the ball enough and they decide to play for the team instead of theirselves (like TO and Sapp did). I know Lamont is not capable of it, but can Moss? Also, the loss of Charles Woodson is going to hurt because no matter how fast your new corners are none of them are close to Woodson in cover ability. Also, don't expect Burgess to get 16 sacks again... especially since he's now the only great threat left on the defensive line (unless a 34 year old Warren Sapp plays like Sapp at 26). This team has a lot of question marks and has shown that they aren't a good place to go to... shown when about a dozen guys turned down the HC job before Shell accepted it.
