well as an other option I'll bring the debate to the GG if Gayle Sayers got in, what about TD? (Terrel Davis) He has two rings, and it's an easy argument to say Elway wouldn't have either of his two rings if it weren't for TD.. and Sayers got in without the 10,000 yard mark.. So why Can't TD? it was pretty obvious he was going to run for 10 grand, had he not been injured...
Joe Carr is in the PFHOF. He was the NFL president from 1921-39. Former commissioners Bert Bell and Pete Rozelle are in, too. Tagliabue has done enough for the league to merit induction. Haley is borderline.
Sayers was a unanimous first team All-Pro selection all five seasons in which he played a full season. You cannot say that about Davis. Sayers was the best kickoff returner of all time. You cannot say that about Davis. Davis played with very good players, including a Hall of Fame quarterback. Sayers was surrounded by mediocre and bad players.
Without the postseason I think Davis is short. With the postseason numbers (1140 rushing yards in eight games, 5.6 yards per carry), he probably should get in, but I personally wouldn't shed a tear if he doesn't get in. Davis was 9th in rushing in 1995. (He missed two games.) 2nd in 1996 2nd in 1997 (he missed one game) 1st in 1998 He then played in only 20 games over his final three seasons. Sayers was 2nd in rushing in 1965. 1st in 1966 3rd in 1967 (he missed 1 game) 5th in 1968 (he missed 5 of the Bears' 14 games) 1st in 1969 He played two games in 1970 and two games in 1971. Sayers returned 91 kickoffs for 2781 yards (30.6 average) and six TDs. He also gained 391 yards on 27 punt returns with two TDs. Sayers was also a better pass catcher than Davis.
I voted for Klecko, Irvin, Matthews, D Thomas, and Kuechenberg. Kuechenberg was a finalist this year, and he'll get in next year. I don't regard Haley as a "first ballot" Hall of Famer. A couple of things... Terrell Davis is most assuredly not a Hall of Fame player. -Factor in the system -Factor in the shortness of his career -Factor in the fact that he lead the league in rushing ONCE in his short career. Davis did rush for 2,000 yards, but he simply played for too short of a time. Tough luck. Next... Enough with the Art Monk. They let Lynn Swann in and that was bad enough. Monk is a very overrated player who was a very good receiver on some very good teams...for a short time. He is the king of the compilers, and he simply stacked on stats well after his prime. You would think he was Jerry Rice the way he is talked about, but: He lead the league in receiving only once In 16 years he had 4 1,000 yard seasons. Gary Clark often had better numbers, and Ricky Sanders had more receiving yards in '88. For many years, Monk wasn't even the number one option for the 'Skins, and neither Clark nor Sanders is a Hall of Fame candidate. Monk might have been a nice guy and clearly identifiable player, but he's not a Hall of Famer. -X-
Part of being a great player is being healthy. That's part of what makes Curtis Martin so great. And no, there are no guarantees that a guy will continue on such a pace. Look at Jamal Lewis, who is falling apart. Two years ago he was a 2,000 yard back with the single game rushing record. This year he is going to be fighting for a starting job with Mike Anderson. -X-
I think Monk was better than his numbers would indicate. He had better hands than Cris Carter. He was a good blocker, he caught passes over the middle and was a strong outside receiver. He was clutch late in games. Often times he would make big catches late in games. There was nobody better at catching hitches. He ran the stop and go to perfection. However, I understand the argument against him. I still feel he belongs in the Hall of Fame. I don't know that I'd classify him as a compiler. In his 12th season he gained 1049 yards on 71 catches (14.8 avg). At that point, it gave him 801 receptions. He retires right then and he'd have HOF credentials. You could say from 1992-1995 he was in compiler mode. He caught 139 passes in 51 games. Clark was consistent with Washington. In his eight seasons there he caught between 56 and 79 catches each year for 892 to 1340 yards with 5 to 10 touchdowns. I liked Clark, but always felt Monk was the better player.
Right, but the point is the numbers don't bear it out. You can't be a Hall of Famer when the guy who is outperforming you in several years is NOT. Plus, the fact that the guy was a 1,000 yard receiver for only 25 percent of his career is no good. Finally, performance should be measured against ones peers. Performance versus peers is the best way of making this decision, since intergenerational comparisons and numbers are effected by change in style of the game. Monk was not on the level. Look at the two other guys here. Art Monk 16 seasons 3 Pro Bowls 4 1,000 yard seasons 3 seasons top 5 in receptions(lead league once) 2 seasons top 5 receiving yards Top 10 all-time in two major receiving categories Cris Carter 16 seasons 8 Pro Bowls 8 Consecutive 1,000 yard seasons Back to back 122 catch seasons Top 5 in receptions 6 times(lead league once) Top 5 in receiving TD's 7 times(lead league 3 times) Top 5 all-time in all major receiving categories Michael Irvin 12 seasons 5 Pro Bowls 5 Consecutive 1,000 yard seasons 7 1,000 yard seasons overall Top five in receptions 3 times Top five in receiving yards 4 times The career accomplishments just aren't similar. -X-
Haley has five SB rings as a starter and was a big reason that the Cowboys were finally able to get past the NFC Championship game. Haley belongs in the hall IMHO.
I like him slightly more than Derrick Thomas. I think he's one of the best players not in the Hall of Fame. Here I only voted for the guys I think definitely belong in the HOF- Thurman Thomas, Irvin, Monk, Tagliabue, and Johnny Robinson. (If Darrell Green is a future Hall of Famer, then Irvin definitely belongs. Green got slapped around silly by Irvin.) There are a plethora of possibles (some of these have been finalists) I am not sure truly belong- Roger Wehrli, Claude Humphrey, Haley, Kuechenberg, Klecko, Charlie Sanders, Gene Hickerson to name a few. I'm 60/40 on Haley.
Art Monk is a borderline HOF prospect. He was a stat compiler with a long career but should not be in the hall. Thurman Thomas may have difficulty getting in since he has no SB rings. Haley should get in the hall before either one of these guys.
I dislike Thurman Thomas very much because he tore the Jets to shreds on many occasions. However, I can't deny he wasn't a Hall of Fame level player. He had some huge scrimmage yard seasons and was one of the top 2 or 3 RBs for a four-year period and followed that with several other top 10 years. He was going to be named SB25 MVP and should have won it even with the Bills losing. Then, he was bad in the other three Super Bowls, being outrushed by his backup, Kenneth Davis (one of the best backup RBs of all time in my opinion). I'll post more thoughts on Monk later.
I am not so sure that Bell and Roselle were inducted the year after they called it quits. If Tags makes the hall he should have to wait five years like everyone else. Also, meriting induction and getting in on the first ballot are two very different things.
Bell died of a heart attack at Franklin Field on 10-11-59. He was inducted into the HOF in 1963. Rozelle was commissioner from 1960-1989. He was inducted into the HOF in 1985. That is not a typo. He was inducted while still serving as commissioner. I have no problem with Tagliabue being inducted in 2007. I think it will not be a strong class of players, so 2007 would be a very good time to do this.
