My usual disclaimer; I’m not the know all and be all of our beloved N.Y. Jets, or the NFL for that matter. What I am is an eternal optimist, who believes that the less than obvious is important, that subtle nuances make a difference, and that we are a society (and the N.Y. Media a microcosm of this) that rushes to judgment and blame undeserverved. So, with that out of the way, I wanted to get you guys take on where we are, and where we are going. Specifically I’m wondering about another team and how it relates to us. The team is the Seattle Seahawks. I see that they have made this tremendous leap to respectability and a sound football program. They are in serious conversation’s regarding contending for a championship (as they did last year). My questions are (as they relate to John Idzak); 1. Is their success related to Pete Carroll and his coaching philosophy and familiarity with college personnel and scouting? 2. Is their success due to John Idzak and his management of that team? As well does this bode well for the direction he appears to be trying to steer us in? 3. Is their rise due to the teamwork of Carroll, Idzak, and the totality of front office management, ownership etc. Just curious as to whether any of you guys have insight to this, and if Mr. Idzak, (not Rex, nor any coach we have nor a solitary player that we may have this false savior belief in) will lead us to respectability, competitiveness, and contention for championships in the future. If this subject has been broached, then forgive, or flame…:wink:
I would argue that it is some combination of the three ... to distinguish and assign merit to one individual over another is unfair particularly since we aren't able to know all of the designated facets of the franchise.
I see your point, but aren't there any indicators that weigh towards 1 of the 3 options? I mean, I thought a team's success was generally easily identifiable, (to the pundits anyway...)
I have to agree here, the only thing we can really comment on at this time is it's fairly apparent that Idzik is trying to apply the Seattle model in New York. the next 4-6 years will say how successful he is. The only thing I'll add is in the NFL front office success and team success are almost always due to a complimentary fusion of multiple people in the organization.
Look, I'm not saying this line of questions is totally without merit, but I think this statement is a leap. The previous regime had the team in a Super Bowl not that long ago. Yes the team has become one of the best in the league, but it's not the kind of turnaround the Cardinals went through a few years ago, or the ones the Tuna put the Giants, Pats, and Jets through.
The Seahawks success is due to several factors: 1. A strong youth movement that has included finding several very good players in the later rounds of the draft. The finds include Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and K.J. Wright, all selected in the 4th round or later by Carroll and company and all impact players on the defense. The drafting earlier than that has been very good also but the fact that the Seahawks have found 3 near star-caliber players in the 4th or later is a huge factor. 2. Veteran free agent acquisitions have been both timely and lucky. Everybody who watched the Bills a few years ago knew that Marshawn Lynch was a good RB with star potential. Then the injuries happened and the suspension and his stock fell. The Seahawks acquired him and got really lucky as he rebounded back to the top of his form. Chris Clemons is another high impact signing at DE. He kicked around the NFL showing real potential at three different stops and then the Seahawks signed him and he turned into a star. This is probably a Pete Carroll reclamation project that turned out golden. 3. They found their QB in Russell Wilson. That's why the Seahawks have risen. John Idzik was part of that and you can already see pieces of it in his first year plan. He signed a bunch of cheap free agents, including one with great potential but a lot of questions in Mike Goodson. He took shots on every draft pick the Jets made. The closest the Jets got to a conservative safety first pick was Brian Winters. Everybody else was about the potential to be a very good player. The Ivory trade was yet another shot at taking a lower draft pick and trying to turn it into a star player. Next year the Jets will have 11+ picks to play with. They'll have cap room to go looking for a Marshawn Lynch type acquisition in free agency or trade. They'll have a much better handle on the QB situation. It's not the Seattle success story yet but the seeds are all there for the Jets to take off if things go well this year. They're in place for a real rebuild if things are more sour in 2013.
Can we wait for some sustained success from Seattle before we declare them some sort of model franchise? Seattle had records of 7-9, 7-9, 5-11, 4-12, prior to last years 11-5. Now we should dissect the organization for pointers on winning in the NFL? onefanjet, I appreciate the thoughtful original post, I just think there's a huuuuge bandwagon thing happening with Seattle right now. They've already had a couple missteps; blowing all those draft picks on perennially injured Percy Harvin, wasting $1 million on Antoine Winfield who retired. I'd just like to see some sustained success before thinking of them as anything more than a one-year wonder.
Fantastic questions and some insightful thought there. Flash is pretty spot on when he says But, I think I know where you are going with this vein of questioning. So...I called up a friend with the Seahawks... As everyone, above, said it's a combination of the three...in his, WELL INFORMED, opinion. Also, throw on a generous helping of luck. When you are pulling down that kind of talent after the 3rd round there is a modicum of luck involved. They would have been happy if one panned out...to have multiple picks do that is impressive...and lucky. Your question brings up an important point...no matter what you read in the press, hear from fans....even hear from some within the team itself. No one guy sits down and makes the all defacto decision(s) in an organization. Even the great Al Davis, who appeared to rule from on high, had a handful of scouts that he relied heavily on. Even he had to collaborate at some point. That's kind of why I had to chuckle when everyone, especially the media...who should know better, went into a tizzy when Idzik commented about the QB decision would be collective. In fact, on MOST teams the offensive coordinator and QB coach have the MOST input as they are the ones who work the most with the player and have the most on the line the player doesn't/can't perform. I hope this helps.
they have good players. we dont. thats it in a nutshell. it took seattle several drafts to be where they are now. hopefully we continue on this path of drafting solid players, keeping our picks, and not overpaying win now has beens. just keep building and in 2-3 year we could be respectable again. maybe we get a qb next couple years to boot
Am I the only one that thinks that team is over-rated and won't make the playoffs this year, and that Russell Wilson had a fluke season that he will never replicate?
i think they got a good supplier of hgh. how many guys have been busted for breaking the ped policy up there in seattle?
1. Seattle had been drafting well for a few years. Jets? They traded the picks away, then pulled disaster a few. That's what. 2. I was told Carroll had scouting reports from the previous three years and whatnot, but regardless, at least Idzik does not throw the picks away a la Tannenbaum; regardless of the quality of your scouting department, you can't make things happen without picks. Jets didn't have enough, in short. So, in that regard, this alone bodes very well to say the very least. 3. I do think that, for the next three years, top two picks have to go to the offense, for impact players - followed by picks on OL, OLB, and safeties to round up the mid round picks. I really like all the guys at the front line [Wilk/Richardson/Ellis/Big Snacks and probably Coples] and I would like to see them intact for years to come.
Most of the credit for the Seahawks' recent success needs to go to their Head Coach (Pete Carroll), their General Manager (John Schneider), and of course the players themselves. As Vice President of Football Administration, it is extremely difficult to judge how much influence Idzik had in any crucial decisions that were made leading to their success. Based on the Seahawks description of his role on the team, It sounds like a big part of his job was overseeing the staff and budgets, ensuring the team was complying with NFL rules, and dealing with routine tasks like travel, practice facilities, league meetings, etc. It also mentions that he had a part in player negotiations and evaluations, but conventional wisdom would suggest that Schneider had the biggest voice in those matters. How much Idzik contributed is anyone's guess.
I think you might be...because not only have I seen in a number of places that the Seahawks are picked to be BETTER than the 49'ers but I've also seen a number of places take them as their SB representative for the NFC. Not only that but I've watched all their preseason games and that freakin' defense is for real and so is Russel Wilson.
Great feedback. I think after reading all these posts so far, I will take heart in; mezzavo: But, I think I know where you are going with this vein of questioning. So...I called up a friend with the Seahawks... As everyone, above, said it's a combination of the three...in his, WELL INFORMED, opinion. Also, throw on a generous helping of luck. When you are pulling down that kind of talent after the 3rd round there is a modicum of luck involved. They would have been happy if one panned out...to have multiple picks do that is impressive...and lucky. Your question brings up an important point...no matter what you read in the press, hear from fans....even hear from some within the team itself. No one guy sits down and makes the all defacto decision(s) in an organization. Even the great Al Davis, who appeared to rule from on high, had a handful of scouts that he relied heavily on. Even he had to collaborate at some point. That's kind of why I had to chuckle when everyone, especially the media...who should know better, went into a tizzy when Idzik commented about the QB decision would be collective. In fact, on MOST teams the offensive coordinator and QB coach have the MOST input as they are the ones who work the most with the player and have the most on the line the player doesn't/can't perform. As well; Br4dw4y5ux: The Seahawks success is due to several factors: 1. A strong youth movement that has included finding several very good players in the later rounds of the draft. The finds include Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor and K.J. Wright, all selected in the 4th round or later by Carroll and company and all impact players on the defense. The drafting earlier than that has been very good also but the fact that the Seahawks have found 3 near star-caliber players in the 4th or later is a huge factor. 2. Veteran free agent acquisitions have been both timely and lucky. Everybody who watched the Bills a few years ago knew that Marshawn Lynch was a good RB with star potential. Then the injuries happened and the suspension and his stock fell. The Seahawks acquired him and got really lucky as he rebounded back to the top of his form. Chris Clemons is another high impact signing at DE. He kicked around the NFL showing real potential at three different stops and then the Seahawks signed him and he turned into a star. This is probably a Pete Carroll reclamation project that turned out golden. 3. They found their QB in Russell Wilson. That's why the Seahawks have risen. John Idzik was part of that and you can already see pieces of it in his first year plan. He signed a bunch of cheap free agents, including one with great potential but a lot of questions in Mike Goodson. He took shots on every draft pick the Jets made. The closest the Jets got to a conservative safety first pick was Brian Winters. Everybody else was about the potential to be a very good player. The Ivory trade was yet another shot at taking a lower draft pick and trying to turn it into a star player. Next year the Jets will have 11+ picks to play with. They'll have cap room to go looking for a Marshawn Lynch type acquisition in free agency or trade. They'll have a much better handle on the QB situation. It's not the Seattle success story yet but the seeds are all there for the Jets to take off if things go well this year. They're in place for a real rebuild if things are more sour in 2013. FlashGordon, your point is well taken also: Can we wait for some sustained success from Seattle before we declare them some sort of model franchise? Seattle had records of 7-9, 7-9, 5-11, 4-12, prior to last years 11-5. Now we should dissect the organization for pointers on winning in the NFL? onefanjet, I appreciate the thoughtful original post, I just think there's a huuuuge bandwagon thing happening with Seattle right now. They've already had a couple missteps; blowing all those draft picks on perennially injured Percy Harvin, wasting $1 million on Antoine Winfield who retired. I'd just like to see some sustained success before thinking of them as anything more than a one-year wonder. The other responses have valid and respectable merit, and I take them in as well. What I had hoped for, was to reinforce the hope I had inside for the upward spiral for our beloved Jets. Sometimes all I read is insanity and negativity, its a battle to hold hope close and be reminded that we are JET FANS, and that we will be so for the rest of our lives. There has to be a pay off, there has to be.... :grin:
Seattle did absolutely nothing before 2012 . They had pretty much a Cinderella season in 2013 - bottom line from what we can discern is that if Wilson falls flat on his buttox this coming season, you can pretty much kiss the Seattle Seahawks playoff hopes goodbye and what ever success phrases you'd like to define for that franchise. Simple to understand, if the person taking the snaps fails , so does the team. See- 2011/2012 Jet films for reference please, thank you...
