It is so good to have Mangini on this team. He's a perfectionist, and he doesn't accept any less from his players. Herm would just coddle them and tell them "better luck next time." I know it's real early, but it just feels like we've got our new Parcells and Belichick here.
The horse collar was close but they will call anything close and Vilma has to know that- it was a bad play during a bad day for him.
I agree we would not have gotten the TD at the end of the half with Herm. For one thing, we wouldn't have had any timeouts left so running wouldn't have been an option. With the hostile crowd and the play clock running down, there were a few spots where I was just waiting for the confusion and the timeout, and it never happened. We got every play off, no wasted TOs and no delay of games. I loved Buffalo's TO with 2:02 left, saved them a whole :02.
The clock management improvement is team wide and not just the CS. Remember is TC the players were chastised for calling time outs when the play clock was running down, (Bollinger I believe) The coach wants them to be mentally prepared and always alert.
The impressive thing to me was when the punt team ran onto the field and got the punt off as the clock was ticking down, and it was a good punt to boot. In the old days we burn a timeout...........that was the Jets game, right? I saw a lot of punts yesterday.
They must have been because the difference is very noticable. Of course it helps to have Chad back instead of an inexperienced 3rd stringer. Even if the clock runs down, in most cases I'd rather take the 5 yard penalty than burn a timeout, especially in the 2nd half. Unless it's a crucial 3rd down in the red zone or something.
Did any of you guys see that article in the nytimes about penalty rates? Basically it said that different officiating crews call different amounts of penalties, and that because of that, teams overall penalty numbers can get schewed by happening to have an officiating team that calls a high number of penalties. Because of this the only real way you can "measure" the amount of penalties that your team commits is to either a) mathematically adjust the number for the type of officiating crew they get or b) compare them only to teams they played because the same officiating crew would be calling penalties for both teams. They then went on to say that although the Jets had the fewest penalties in the league the last few years, their opponents had almost the identical number of penalties, so either the jets opponents magically morphed into penalty free teams for the jets game, and then back to penalty prone teams afterwards, or the officiating has far more impact on penalty rates than teams do. They also said in that article that although the Giants were amongst the league leaders the last few years in penalties, they actually had fewer penalties than their opponents overall when you went through and looked at it game by game. Fairly interesting stuff I think, when you think about how announcers and fans praised Herm for having such a "disciplined" the last few years.
mangini and crew are doing a great job w/ the clock esp in the last game before the half, he didnt get frustrated or leave too much time on clock, he only left like 17 secs another think i would like to point out is that, if herm was still the HC, he wouldnt have gone for the 4th and short, if he would have i dont think it would have been a QB sneak, i thought that was a good call by magini / shotty
Thats great stuff. Do you have a link? (Its interesting because it always seemed weird that Herm' s teams would have the fewest penalties.) Fewest penalties stat does not necessarily mean anything: It depends on what penalties (off sides; holds; illegl procedure). Also, if a team does not have a lot of illegal procedure penalties, it could be they alway use the same snap count etc.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the nytimes's archive section. The title of the article is KEEPING SCORE; When Flags Fly, the Referees' Habits May Be the Reason. If anyone is a nytimes subscriber and could post it that would be cool.
That's great, and really shows the importance of comparing "like with like" in any data analysis. It makes perfect sense to use a "paired sample" technique, where you look at the difference between the two teams' penalty numbers, rather than a "two sample" technique, where you just look at the totals over all games.
EXACTLY! I WAS THOROUGHLY IMPRESED. I KEPT SAYING AT THE BAR TO SOM OTHER FANS HOW WE (JETS) ARE STEPPING ON THEIR THROATS!
it's like night and day...you can't compare the coaching this year to last year. i'm so happy with what has happened. i still am not sold on the jets being for real but they're definetly better than I figured they would be. with chad healthy you never really know. these next 2 weeks will be VERY telling.
I couldn't get over that. It really came back to haunt them minutes later too, when they could have used an extra TO with 15 seconds on the clock.
This is the article: KEEPING SCORE; When Flags Fly, the Referees' Habits May Be the Reason By AARON SCHATZ Published: August 13, 2006 When the Giants hired Tom Coughlin as coach in January 2004, one of his stated goals was to instill discipline in his players. The Giants had ranked third among all N.F.L. teams in total penalties the year before, and that was unacceptable to Coughlin and to Giants fans. In Coughlin's first year, it seemed as if his tough-minded approach to rules and practices might bear fruit. The Giants ranked 11th in total penalties, including those declined or offsetting. But if Coughlin's disciplinarian approach helped, it did not help for long. Last year, the Giants were penalized 167 times, tied with the Oakland Raiders for second most in the league behind the Arizona Cardinals. Left tackle Luke Petitgout earned 15 flags on his own, making him the second-most penalized player in the league. The problem came to a head in November, when the Giants lost to the Seattle Seahawks, 24-21, in overtime. Jay Feely missed a field-goal attempt to win in regulation, and two more in overtime, but it never should have been that close. The Giants gained 413 yards in regulation, compared with 297 for the Seahawks. But they kept giving back that yardage with penalties: 19 in all, 16 of which were accepted for a total of 114 yards. Petitgout was called for five false starts, and his linemate David Diehl had three false starts and a flag for holding. But were Petitgout, Diehl and the other Giants entirely to blame for their performance? There are a number of factors that determine how many penalties will be called in an N.F.L. game, and the discipline of the penalized team is just one. Analysis of all regular-season games from the past four years shows that the habits of the officials calling the game have as much impact as a team's ability to avoid penalties. The Giants' loss to Seattle provides a good example. Larry Nemmers was the referee that day, and Nemmers and his crew doled out more penalties per game than any other crew in the National Football League last year: 20.6, significantly ahead of second-place Ed Hochuli's 19.1 penalties a game. Nemmers called the Giants for 19 penalties, but he also flagged the Seahawks 13 times. That was a season high for Seattle, which ranked 29th in total penalties over 16 regular-season games. On the other extreme was Bill Vinovich, whose crew called only 12.3 penalties a game. In one San Diego-Oakland contest, Vinovich called three total penalties between the two clubs. The Raiders committed at least seven penalties in every other game last year. The Giants' high number of penalties may be largely attributable to the officiating crews that were randomly assigned to their games. The Giants may have finished second in penalties, but they also ranked first in opponent penalties, and by a hefty margin. In fact, the Giants' opponents had more penalties (170) than the Giants (167). This indicates that referees in Giants games were calling penalties on everyone. Oakland and Arizona, on the other hand, were among the top three most penalized teams last season, but they ranked near the bottom in opponent penalties. That indicates that the Raiders and the Cardinals, not the referees, were the reason for all the flags. The average N.F.L. team was penalized 8.5 times a game last year; the Giants drew at least 10 penalties in 10 games, and their opponents drew at least 10 penalties in 11 games. Seattle was one of four teams that marked its season high in penalties in a game against the Giants. This tendency for highly penalized teams to also draw a lot of penalties was even stronger two years ago. Arizona led the league in both penalties and opponent penalties in 2004; the Jets and the Seahawks, ranked first and second in fewest penalties, were ranked the same way in fewest opponent penalties. The habits of N.F.L. referees and their officiating crews, for the most part, stay consistent from year to year. Nemmers was third in penalties per game in 2004, and ranked first in penalty yards per game the past two seasons. Gerry Austin and Walt Anderson ranked first and second in fewest penalties in 2004, and tied for second behind Vinovich for fewest penalties in 2005. Officiating crews also differ in their predilection to call certain penalties and not others. Over the past three years, Hochuli's crew has called 193 false-start penalties, while Jeff Triplette's crew has called only 95, despite the same number of games. On the other hand, Triplette led the league in calling defensive pass interference two of the past three seasons, and is annually among the leaders in calling offensive holding. No matter which teams draw Nemmers as the referee for their opening-week game, they can count on a lot of penalties. The commentators will say the penalties show that the teams are showing early-season jitters. In reality, they may show that Nemmers and his crew are in midseason form.
Yea, did you get the sense that Losman thought he was so smart for calling that T.O. Let's just say he had a Ralph C. Wilson moment.
The thing about Mangini is that he deals with the small things. He goes through every possible situation with the team. He's a stickler for details. And he's a no-excuse kind of guy. Those are the things that have made Parcells and Belichick so successful, and that's what he's bringing to us. Personally, I was really upset when Al Groh left the team for Virginia. It was the end of the Parcells era, but the Parcells era was what I loved about the Jets. In that era, we were contenders. The system that Herman Munster brought in was a totally different direction away from what Parcells built. And in the end, it failed. Mangini brings the Parcells era back to this team, and whether we win 10 or 8 or 6 this season, I'm thrilled - as I'm sure many of you are - that Eric Mangini is our coach. [violins please] By the way, I think we're gonna win a lot more than people think.
To add to what you said. If herm did go for it would have been a running play to the running back 8 yards deep in the backfield. Not the almost unstoppable (for a yard or under) QB sneak.
The official numbers for the 2005 Giants: 143 penalties for 1115 yards their opponents: 136 penalties for 1180 yards *** Jets under Herman Edwards 2001- Jets penalized for 507 yards (fewest in league) opponents penalized for 700 yards league average- 785 2002- Jets penalized for 685 yards (tied for fewest in AFC) opponents penalized for 809 yards league average- 864 2003- Jets penalized for 550 yards (fewest in league) opponents penalized for 620 yards (fewest in league) league average- 876 2004- Jets penalized for 693 yards (fewest in AFC) opponents penalized for 720 yards (fewest in league) league average- 913 2005- Jets penalized for 801 yards opponents penalized for 981 yards league average- 931
