I'm gonna get bashed for this, but if we're gonna be honest, can we say that Vilma is NOT living up to his hype? Yes, the man gets his 10-12 tackles a game. However, how many of them are impact, game changing plays? In other words, most of his tackles aren't happening at the point of attack but 8 or 10 yards upfield. We all know that a great insider linebacker makes stops at the line. It seems to me that his athleticism made him a great college player. However, in the NFL, where EVERYONE has athleticism, to be a superior ILB you need smarts. He doesn't seem to have enough. It seems that he always leans the wrong way on run plays and therefore has to catch up to the RB rather than meeting him for a quick hit. It's not hard to see the defense is awful and as the anchor and supposed best player on it, Vilma has to start taking some of the blame. Ok...let me have it Vilma lovers
I fought with Champ on this a lot last year. I still think Vilma is a good LB, but it seems 3-4 may not be the place for him, or he may still be learning. I've been critical of Bryan Thomas this year because he has the tackles, just no plays, and the same must be said about Vilma this year. Hopefully the 3-4 light will turn on and the LB's will start to make some plays, but I'm beginning to think Vilma will be traded because he is undersized in the 3-4.
my opinion, the front 3 are atrocious and Kimo may be worse than Robertson. he gets tied up with single blockers as much as D-Rob has. which means more than half the time a G will be getting a free release on Barton or Vilma then again I do agree, that the few times the gaps are sustained Vilma has taken himself out of position by biting on misdirection or overpursuing. But to blame him for not being some dominant player in the first year under the 3-4 without 3-4 personnel is crazy. ray lewis couldnt really do it well and their personnel was WAAAAAAY better than ours at this point. i dont think hes a godsend like some jets fans cuz I do see him overpursue the few times the gaps are contained, but at the same time people fail to see that the 3 down lineman are probably more important than your 4 LB's in a 3-4. with nobody to tie up blockers the LB's are trying to play like DL. so we look like amateurs.
Forget the 3-4 for a moment and think back to the last 3 years. The Jets have ALWAYS been in the bottom 5 in rush defense. That tells us a lot about our up the middle players (Robertson and Vilma). Ok...everyone pretty much agrees that Robertson is garbage, but everyone seems to love Vilma. While I'm not saying Vilma is garbage (he's not---he's a decent player), I think it's time we realize he's never gonna be the anchor to a great defense.
Vilma may or may not work out in the 3-4. He's been a non-impact player to this point in the season, looking more like a strong safety than a linebacker due to the location of most of his tackles. I can't recall a single play where he has shot the gap and met a runningback behind the line of scrimmage. With his speed I'm wondering if the Jets might not just be better off going and finding another ILB and shifting him to strong safety. That'd play more to his strengths in this defense and allow him even to take off a few pounds instead of having to constantly bulk up to a weight that is not appropriate for his frame.
thats dumb. Henderson was the only solid DC to be here since Parcells and Friends were. when he was here Vilma was all over the field. and Robertson isnt garbage in a 4-3 (just my opinion). but you could also attribute our bad ranks in rush d to the great ranking in pass D weve had over the years. that is if you want to argue with statistics. the only thing we can agree on, cuz i wont debate anymore, is that Vilma is looking very very avg this year. put him on over 90 percent of other teams in the league and he will dominate. thats just me though.
I love Vilma but I agree with a lot of what you're saying. He's not making impact plays and he doesn't look that good in the 3-4. However, the root of the problem with our defense is the lackluster DL. If they're not doing their job, they're making it harder for Vilma to do his. That, in turn, makes it harder for the DBs. And this domino effect makes the whole D look like crap.
using the bottom 5 rush d argument to single out vilma. i wont argue anymore cuz this is the 1st year im not impressed with him. maybe you havent been but i cant argue with someone who thinks hes been lackluster before this season. lol cuz neither one of us will budge on our stance.
We all hate on D-rob but that one hit he had on Harrington showed he CAN do something when he's in the right matchup. We haven't had a big enough nose tackle here since, well I don't even know. Just imagine if we cut D-rob and he gets signed by someone with a good nose, and starts putting up Sapp numbers like he was always hyped to do.
I didn't think he was lackluster....I never said that...you just misunderstood me... He seemed to be a player who was developing into an impact ILB...I wouldn't blame him for the last 3 years because of his age... BUT...at what point do we say that someone is no longer developing, but is what he is? That was my point
well theres no reason to argue it, to say someone has peaked Id have to see them in the same system for like 4 yrs and fail to perform. hes now spending his 3rd yr under a 2nd new system and a completely new staff. which i think most of us can agree hes out of position. so to classify this yr as if it is yet another year of inconsistency isnt fair to him IMO. when we have a solid NT and a real DE not getting pushed around (old hoffen) I'll judge him. but as of now were running a defense were not built to
I agree with your point about the new system and all...but...as a Jet fan I've seen a "new system" every 3 or 4 years for 30 years... At what point does that stop being an excuse for underachieving players?
Vilma is overrated. no reason for a thread on this though as a lot of us have been saying this in other threads for a couple weeks now...anyone see urlacher last night. Ive heard a lot of people comparing vilma to an urlacher type the last couple weeks. I understand that vilma does not have the support that urlacher does.....but make no mistake about it.....vilma is NO WHERE NEAR brian urlacher...any comparison is laughable at this point in their careers, laughable
haha yeah we transition alot and i know its gotten probably verry annoying for older fans. since when has vilma underachieved? this year definitely. i guess people wouldnt complain if he had 5 more INT's and and a few more forced fumbles in his career up to this point. and where we disagree is you havent been fully impressed up to this point. where i believe his decline has started this yr. ill put it this way. if the staff puts a solid NT in front of him and he continues to perform like this. than yes hes not the superstar people have labeled him. but i think what vilma critics understand is even his supporters can now ackknowledge theres a problem with him in the scheme and not being surrounded with the correct personnel for the d. so yes,his play has deteriorated and hes not making any game changing plays.
I agree that there are a ton of teams where Vilma would be successful if he were there. Vilma is my boy, but I really don't see him playing 3-4, he's undersized for that.
you may want to rethink that statement. in 2004 the jets were very good against the run and the pass. I see you have a very short memory when it comes to the defense. Vilma was solid under donnie henderson and the 4-3. give him some time to learn to play within the 3-4 and he will be fine. hes a smart LB. I don't know where you're getting that he isn't. This year he has looked awkward at times in the 3-4, but so has the entire defense. the d linemen leave a lot to be desired when it comes to playing a 3-4. if we were playing a 4-3 you'd be saying the exact opposite of what you posted.
Vilma doesn't have the personnel in front of him for him to dominate in the 3-4. Everyone was ready to write off Ray Lewis a few years back when he was in a similar situation. The following season, the Ravens went out and signed enough beef upfront and a run stopping ILB. I expect the Jets to do the same.
Is it disappointing? Yes. But not living up to his hype? So Defensive Rookie of the Year and then parlaying that into a Pro-Bowl his 2nd season he isn't living up to it? Look, we all knew it'd be tough for the Jets to run a successful 3-4 with the lack of personnel to run it...But damn, it's been 6 games in a brand new system, and while it looks horrible, you have to give the guy some time to adapt and this offseason it is a must to adress NT, DE and a Pass-Rushing OLB... Chill out. We knew their'd be some bad growing pains in the 3-4.
