I guess you think if the knicks won the Atlantic division that would be meaningful. A division title is totally meaningless in todays NFL.
When in a team's history they had a total of 3(and only ONE since the merger in 1970) it makes division titles meaningful add to it that we are the only team outside of NE to win one since 2001 and it makes it even more special.
You have excepted a low bar based on past performance and you got it. It's easy to achieve goals when the bar is set low. That explains the Herm love perfectly.
Herman was never able to sit down a veteran in favor for a better player. That right there is your first coaching mistake, as shown this year when he benched Huard who the team was playing strong behind. How about how he walked into the RCA Dome thinking that if he gives Larry the ball 40 times they will walk right out of there with a win. He had no other game plan when everyone knew what he would do. There was no setting up for the playaction or come out throwing the ball. Herman is a very predictable coach and is mediocre at evaluating talent. Horrible game day coach as well, plenty of times his clock management skills were shown. He even hired someone to be his own personal clock manager and between the two of them they still could not get it right. I really dont see you argument anymore, I have a balanced opinion on a lot of things and I definately can think outside the box. But there is no way you can tell me Herm was a productive coach here, there is just no way! The Jets got very lucky in San Diego and should have beat Pitt but of course that was our players faults. Lets run two draws and then kneel giving our kicker an even tougher kick. Herman never took this team to where they needed to be. He promised Jordan and many other players all sorts of things but could not live up to them on game day. Let Cotchery sit on the bench while McCareins was dropping passes left and right. Doug Jolley?!? Started Vinny over Bollinger? The list goes on and on. There are soo many more negatives about Herman Edwards as a head coach then there are positives. I would like to hear all the great things that Herman did for the Jets and for the Chiefs this year? Please you seem to defend him soo much I would like to know the reason you feel teams should give this guy more respect then he has recieved. I honestly cant think of one positive thing he did for the Jets organization or for the Chiefs this year. Youth
yes it is about setting the bar low The facts are prior to Herm we had: 3 div titles, only ONE AFC East Title 8 PO appearances in 40 years missed the playoffs 2 straight years, 8 of 9 and 12 of 14. We had TWO PO appearances in 14 years Only 3 HCs w/ 2 postseason wins Hadn't won a road playoff game in 22 years Under Herm we won only our SECOND AFC East Title, made the playoffs for the first time in 3 years in 2001, made 3 postseason appearances in 5 years or just 1 under half the amount we had in 40 years pre-Herm, we won a road playoff game and had 2 playoff wins making Herm tied for the top spot among Jet HCs. We did all this w/ the division very strong and w/ a dynasty team in our division. Parcells was here 3 years and we made the playoffs ONCE, Parcells has been in Dallas 4 years and made it twice in a weak conference and he has ZERO playoff wins. Who were thse better players that deserved to play? Some players take longer to develop than others. He did start Coleman, Vilma(no he wasn't starting until Cowart got hurt but he was playing starter time and Cowart started off '04 great), Rhodes, Robertson and plenty of other rookies or young players played major roles for us or started in year 2 like Jones, Mckenzie, Hobson, Miller, Moss, McGraw, Lamont. you know who recommended he hire a coach for clock mgmt? BILL PARCELLS who himslef had a coach in charge of clock mgmt earlier in his coaching career. That shows me that he knew he had a problem and wanted to fix it. first off, I have NEVER called him a great coach and I am very happt yo have Mangini BUT let me just recap for: 0 playoff appearances 2 years prior to Herm, 2 in 14 years, 8 in 40 years, 1 AFC East Title Pre Herm, 2 road playoff wins in our history, we had never made it 3 in 4 years before but after Herm took over we made it 2 straight and 3 of 4, won a road playoff game, won a division title and made the playoffs at a 60% rate when pre-Herm we made it at a 20% rate but yeah he wasn't productive. he was the worst coach I have ever seen, oh how I long for the days of the Holtz's, Coslets, Carrolls, Kotites, grohs,... yes we got lucky in SD b/c our kicker missed a 32 yd FG earlier in the game and a player got a roughing call on a play that would have sealed the win. In Pitt we had 3 points of offense but went to OT against a 15-1 team, that's good coaching and he made a mistake taking a knee but the kick was more than makeable. We had a HOF Rb in Curtis Martin who was playing better than Lamont, Cotch played alot in year 2 but we had no QB, no OL,no running game(look at Coels #s from '05 to '06) and mcCareins was our best WR in 2004 so he earned a starting spot for '05, the doug Jolley trade(which wasn't Herm) was a GREAT trade(we have a great K, a great KR who can be a good corner and we got a great Safety), was bollinger the future? he still started at least 8 games. I have already given you a list w/ the Jets but w/ KC how abou taking over a team that missed the playoffs 2 straight years and 7 of 8 years the guiding them back to the playoffs? No one will ever confuse him w/ Bill parcells of the 80s and 90s(he's a better coach than BP RIGHT NOW at least more successful) but he is a good HC that can take you to a certain level. I think Mangini can be great so i am happy where we are at but I appreciate what Herm did here. if you cannot see any positives I'd love to know what you think of 95% of the coaches in this league. it sounds like you'd only be satisfied w/ Belichick and every other coach sucks.
If you have listened to Herm's press conferences in KC, you would know that every time a question about the offense comes up, Herm goes on to say "Hey, we have a guy that just finished his first year as an OC. He's done pretty well for a new OC. He'll get better next year, too." All he's doing here is pushing Solari towards the curb, so that when the bus comes, he'll be easy to throw under it next year. Herm ALWAYS goes through this underhanded complimenting of Solari. ALWAYS talks about it being his first year as an OC. Takes NO blame for anything. Nothing new there.... Solari, meet tire tread.
He didn't say that was the reason he became our DC. He said it was the reason he even got any HC interviews. He's not capable of being a good HC.
This apparantly is the difference between our opinions. You compare all stats from past year and try to turn it into a positive thing for Herman. He was handed a roster than had some very very good players on it. I think any coach we hired could have gotten us to the playoffs in those few years. Its not soo much how many times you make the playoffs or how you get there but come on he was here for 5 years! He did nothing but manage to get a team close in the playoffs and tighten up his playing calling. Also 3 offensive points in a playoff game is just awful. If Herman had any clue how to draw a gameplan or switch gears on the offensive side of the ball we should have easily beat Pitt. It does sound like to me you are happy with your playoff appearance, I for one am not. Herman was an awful coach when it came down to it. I dont care how many wins he had, he had no clue how to coach on GAMEDAY! Well lets see first off Jordan and Cotchery got the rough treatment. He constantly sat there and told Jordan to his face he would get carries. I know there was a HOF Running Back in Martin in front of him. But for the sake of Martins career share some carries. Herman only cared about records for Martin not about helping the team and improving our future. Coleman had no one to compete against so he was handed the job and did a good job that year but has done nothing since. Every coach has young players they start but not every coach promises week in and week out more carries for someone then sits him down the entire game. Herman ruined the future that Parcells has built successfully and then jumped shipped when his boys in KC opened up a position. This is your best comeback here?? Im not a huge fan of Parcells so stop comparing the two. NO COACH that is in the NFL should have clock management assitant. Eric Mangini didnt need one and neither do 20 of the head coaches in the NFL today. This is exactly the kind of thing that showed me Herman was unqualified as a head coach. I like the guy as a person but I think you just might be blind to the truth about Herman. Here we go with more stats. I know already what Herman did when he was hear. I know how many times we went to the playoffs. But I think you are very blind to see how poorly we were coached in those playoffs games. I will even exclude the regular season since the playoffs is where it means most. So this 60% rate does what for the Jets?? Atleast Parcells got us to the AFC Championship game, where did Herman get us? The Divisional round wow good for him. He was simply outcoached every time the Jets played a playoff game the only time he wasnt was when the Jets played Martyball. Not hard to outcoach him. Yes our kicker missed it as did theirs, but their coach was worse then ours so I cant really count that as a huge win since the following week Herman got out coached. So explain this to me you consider it successfull when your offense only puts up 3 points in a playoff game? Now if Herman knew how to gameplan and run an offense and gave us maybe 12 points a game, the Jets would become superbowl contenders that year. The defense was playing great and was gameplanned correctly not by Herman though. It was more than a mistake taking a knee. You just miss a FG and Ben hands you the ball at the 40 and your thinking FG right away??? That is awful coaching here lets see we are at the 40 on the road vs the best team in football lets hope we get a good FG opportunity. Draw play, awesome few yards let run it again they will never see it coming. Draw play, no gain, ok awesome now we need to line it up in the middle of the field so take a knee and lose 2 yards. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? That isnt bad coaching that is just plain stupidity and playing NOT to win. Where was our HOF Running Back last season?? Thanks Herman, all you had to do was give the young Jordan 20% of the carries and Martin still would have set his records and even would have broken Sanders record. Also you don't promise someone improved playing time week in and week out and never live up to it. I dont blame Jordan for leaving, Herm screwed up that situation really bad. Give Jordan 20% carries then when he re signs go 50/50 and there is our future when Martin slows down. It is simple as that. Lol the Chiefs backed into the playoffs, and the best part was everyone knew the Chiefs would try to run it down the Colts throat. So Herman comes into the RCA Dome smiling thinking about handing it to Larry 40 times. THIS IS THE EXACT REASON I DISLIKE HERMAN. The Colts know that is coming so you gameplan with play actions and deep passes early on then mix in the run. Instead the Chiefs come out running the ball and getting stuffed and Peyton marches down and the game was over from that point. Dungy is a much better coach than Herman and that is my exact point. Day in and day out Herman gets out coached. I would take the 5% who knows how to win over the 95% that are just pretenders. Give me a coach who can outmatch any other coach, that is how you win Superbowls. A Coach that is smarted than 95% of the others in the NFL. I have said my part and I am done discussing Herman Edwards, because I understand that you are responding to my posts. But I dont truly believe you are reading and analyzing them. Therefore this argument will go no where. I will end it with this statement. Lets see how Herman rebuilds KC, he was handed playoff teams both times. But jumped ship before he had to rebuild. Lets see how he turns KC around. Youth
Thank you. This is exactly what I meant, he only got interviewed because of the minority thing. Call me what you want but that was put in the papers, he was never capable of being a head coach. Only got interviewed cause he was a minority. Youth
More special? NE won the SB the year before and the two years after we won the division. You have argued that we won the toughest division in football. The fact is we were the only team to win our division in a 4 year span that not only didn't win a SB, we didn't make it out of the second round. Maybe the Pats had a down year? Maybe Herm had the best team in football and got outcoached by Gruden who's team was destroyed in the SB? Maybe the Pats just had a down year after winning their first SB and Herm with a 9 & 7 team backed in because Wanstadt was even dumber?
Am I supposed to compare him to the 80s 49ers? yeah I compare what he did to past Jet coaches and he did alot of things no Jet coach has ever done before. You think that roster was so talented? Then why did we not make the playoffs the 2 years before Herm was hired? Why did basically 5 coaches not want the job? Belichick who was a faiklure in Cleveland and basically had 1 shot left was willing to go to a team on the decline rather than take over our "talent". Bill parcells who was desperate for 1 last SB run quit on us after '99 then had a chance to take over after '00 and he decided not to again but rather took a job in Dallas where the situation didn't look great. Al Groh waited 20 years to become an NFL HC and left "all this talent" after just 1 year to become HC of a mid of the pack ACC school and Dom Capers also took his name out of the running after being interviewed b/c he wanted to take over an expansion team. Why would all these coaches who are desperate to win walk out on the "amazing talent" that we had? Lamont was drafted to take over for Curtis but Curtis kept on running well. He led the NFL in rushing in Lamont's last year here. Cotchery was behind 2 good WRs in Moss and McCareins(Justin was our best WR in 2004) and he played alot in 2005 but we had no QB, no running game and no Ol to have a quality passing attack. Look at the diference in Coles #s from '05 to '06 for proof of that. That is a bad comeback? Bill Parcells is a HALL OF FAME COACH. if it was good enough for him I think it's good enough for Herm to try and if you think Herm was the only HC w/ clock mgmt issues then you don't watch alot of football. Just last week SD and Seattle lost b/c of poor clock mgmt. Name the playoff games we were totlally outcoahced and that was why we lost? We had a QB w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder facing maybe the league's best D that year. It's not hard to figure out why we only scored 3 points. So herm was responsible for the O when it played poorly but when the D played well Herm didn't have anything to do w/ it? That's the type of reasoning that annoys the heck out of me w/ the herm haters. Every time we won it was b/c of the players but when we lost it was b/c of Herm- that's asinine thinking. Herm deserves both credit for wins and blame for losses as do the players and the rest of the CS. now it's Herms fault Curtis got hurt last season? Does Herm get blamed for Pearl Harbor too? LJ had 18% of the carries in 2004- he needed 2 more % points and he would have re-signed? They backed in by BEATING the team that beat us 41-0. how did that work in 2002 when the 2 coaches met in the playoffs? He was handed playoff teams that DIDN'T MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!! Botht he jets and Chiefs had missed the 2 years before he got there so how was he handed playoff teams???? Just read what you write, it makes no sense. How does a coach who isn't capable of being an NFL HC make the playoffs 4 times in 6 seasons? I think only 2 or 3 HCs have more postseason appearances than Herm since 2001. We were the only team to win the AFC East since 2001 besides NE. NE is a DYNASTY, they ha ve been by far the best team in the NFL- it is special beating them out for a div title. I don't know what you expected when Herm was hired- you expected a Jets dynasty? we couldn't even reach a SB w/ maybe the greatest coaching staff of all time in 1998 and you expected a 1st time HC to lead us to a dynasty?
Nice duck Junc, we beat them out with a 9 & 7 record and lost to a very mediocre Raider team in the playoffs. We were a very good team coached by a very weak HC who couldn't even pull the trigger on starting the right QB who was pre-picked for him with an OC who was hired as you pointed out to install the O for him. Herm had excellent teams and in 5 years came away with nothing to show. He won the division primarily because Wanstadt put the ball in Feidlers hands in a game he had won. In the end Herm ran the team into the dirt because he insisted on bringing in mediocre CB ahead of OL.
Who cares what the record was? we were bat up early in the year and started out 1-4, 2-5 then we wona division in whihc the last place team was 8-8. The raiders were mediocre? That same raider team gave NE it's toughest game in the playoffs the year before and maybe NE's toughest win in their dynasty years. How did he run a team into the ground when he elevated the team after he took over? The team got BETTEr under Herm, we sucked in '05 b/c of injuries. No coach could have won w/ the talent we put on the field for most of that season. This year we were healthy and we won 10 again, it wasn't a coincidence.
