I just don't get you Chad fans. Can you tell me that if we were down 21 to 6 at the half against the Pats with Chad at the helm we could have won? not a chance. His arm strength is a factor. Teams have a whole freaken book on how to stop Chad. Simple put 8 in the box and make him try to beat you with the long throw. He checks down more than any QB in the league. yeah, once a game he will throw that 30 yard floater that amazingly cotchery picks out of the air because of athletecism and strength. IMO you need a QB with the potential to strke long or at least put some fear in other teams mind. Yeah, Grossman sucks, but he can throw the ball long. And please his defense is a tad better than ours. And by the way, baltimore which had such an amazing defense lost. So the idea of winning with defense doesn't always ring true. I myself am hoping Clemmens is reading his play book while on crapper every day and is in the video room watching tape. I also think that Mangini realizes Chads defeciencies and will open up competition. We may have to take a step back to go forward.
I agree with this 100%! We need to step back to step forward. If Mangini is true to his word then Clemens is a smart Qb with a way better arm than chad. Let him play now!
i agree, give me Samuel, Banta Cain, and lets draft woodley/Carriker, and were heading up there. Plus we weaken the pats.
Look nobody is bashing CP. Your immediate knee jerk to anything said about CP is really tiring at least for me. To me CP is a wonderful person, bleeds green, etc buuuuuuuuuuut what where CP runs onto the negative side of the page is when you look at all his limitations & do you really think he is the QB to win us a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP with a less then average D? That is the question not the 10 games we won this year. We are in this to win a SB not owe a player for winning 10 games for us. BTW the same goes for I make tackles only 5 or more yds DF JV
We will never consistently beat teams with great defenses with Chad at QB. He just cannot make the throws. Brady made a very interesting comment this week. He said that against the Chargers he had to throw bullets to even get 3 or 4 yards against their coverage. I thought that was tremendously interesting and a powerful statement.The same is true of Chicago, Baltimore, and all the other elite defenses. Chad cannot did that. Simply put, for us to get to the next level we need a QB that can fit the ball in with velocity when needed and Chad cannot do that. We need to change, in my view. I agree we need to shore up our defense, especially against the run, but we need a change at QB most of all. Also, we do not need 3 years to "overhaul" our defense, it is very close and a couple keep players could make it elite. Say we get Samuels at CB, a big NT, and an outside speed DE/OLB hybrid in the offseason our defense could be formidable and capable of winning the Super Bowl.
my thing is with chad we can not get deep balls thrown down the field so for a game u you make the db's job defending us very easy. if we are gonna keep chad around next season we should have a qb that rotates in with him next season. because the ramsey signing was a waste the guy never touched the field and we gave up a draft pick for someone we never used . get whoever they think is gonna be the heir to the thrown get that man some snaps and some experience.
And Elway, old and over the hill still had enough arm to threaten our D and Davis ran wild on us. If Pennington had been the QB of Denver that day we win in a walk.
I have seen an argument similar to this a number of times(Paraphrasing): "Look at previous SB winners and there are plenty of teams that have exceptional defenses paired with average/below average QB's. If this is the case then just pair Chad with an exceptional D and that is our ticket!" Well - time to add a dose of reality. All of those SB winners that followed that formula had an average/below average QB that also came with an average/below average cap hit. If I am not mistaken - Chad's incentives bumped his cap hit up to the 9 mil range. It will be quite difficult if not impossible to create an exceptional D with that much cash tied up in a QB of Chad's caliber.
I don't think any QB wins with an average defense. That is why the Jets are likely to spend this offseason and their cap money and draft picks building a championship caliber defense. Doesn't that make more sense than changing QBs at this point, especially with Clemens in the wings if Pennington is not the answer?????? People always go for the "sexy" option - change the QB, get a franchise RB, pick up Randy Moss, but fail to realize that it is the trenches that wins football games. Give Pennington a top notch defense and a running game and there is no reason why the Jets can't win a title.
Aren't we almost $28mil UNDER the cap? Over the next several years, especially once the remainder of Martin's money comes off the cap, we'll be in perfect shape to develop the next dominant Defense.
I agree, but you keep making Pennington sound like a bad quarterback. He is not bad. He is a good quarterback. With a #1 defense and running game, the Jets would be in great shape for a Super Bowl even without Pennington. Giving Chad a break wouldn't be a bad thing though. Take some pressure off of him to do everything, and he will play even better.
The problem I have with this argument is that I'm greedy. These teams that win with an average, manage the game type QB and great defense are usually gone and forgotten pretty quickly. I want a team that is a legitimate superbowl contender for at least a few years. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Jets win just one, but I am greedy. Why can't we have the nasty defense and a great QB? I know there's no such thing as a HOF QB tree, but is it wrong to want the best of both worlds?
I'm not making Chad to be anything but what he is. A Good QB capable of winning a SB with an outstanding defense behind him. It is what it is. Chad won't take over a game. Chad's strength is his brain, not his arm or mobility so why ask him to do anything except what he excels at? He's great at what he does. He'll never be a rocket-laser armed QB. He's Chad Pennington so why not put him in the best position to win the big one? One more time. Give Chad a top 5 defense and he'll get you a SB appearance. Depend on Chad to win games by himself and you'll be sorely dissapointed. Not because Chad is a bad QB, but because Chad isn't a DOMINANT QB. He's good at what he does...It is what it is..
look at the super bowl team, then this one and then tell me you're going to win a super bowl with ducky? get real! the 69 jets defense was not exceptional, but it didn't need to be when the offense could score 7 points from anywhere on the field, and you did not have to dumb down the offense cause the qb just can't make some throws.
from today's rochester d&c: It takes more than a quarterback to win a Super Bowl, but it difficult to win one when the QB plays lousy. Here are the 10 most apparent QB mismatches entering the game in Super Bowl history: Super Bowl II ? Hall of Famer Bart Starr (Green Bay) vs. Daryle Lamonica (Oakland). The Packers won 33-14. Super Bowl III ? Hall of Famer Joe Namath (New York Jets) vs. a fading Earl Morrall (Baltimore). The Jets won 16-7. Morrall was 6 of 17 for 71 yards with 0 TD passes and 3 interceptions before being replaced by Johnny Unitas. Super Bowl IV ? Hall of Famer Len Dawson (Kansas City) vs. Canadian Football League import Joe Kapp (Minnesota). The Chiefs won 23-7. Kapp had 0 TD passes and 2 INTs. Super Bowl XIV ? Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw (Pittsburgh) vs. Vince Ferragamo (Los Angeles Rams). The Steelers won 31-19. Super Bowl XVII ? Joe Theismann (Washington) vs. David Woodley (Miami). The Redskins won 27-17. Woodley was 4 of 14 for 97 yards. Super Bowl XX ? Jim McMahon (Chicago) vs. Tony Eason (New England). The Bears won 46-10. Eason was 0-for-6 before Steve Grogan mercifully replaced him. Super Bowl XXII ? Hall of Famer John Elway vs. Doug Williams (Washington) looked like a mismatch entering the game, but the Redskins won 42-10 and Williams played like the Hall of Famer (18 of 29 for 340 yards and 4 TDs. Super Bowl XXIX ? Hall of Famer Steve Young vs. Stan Humphries (San Diego). The 49ers won 49-26. Super Bowl XXX ? Hall of Famer Troy Aikman (Dallas) vs. Neil O'Donnell (Pittsburgh). The Cowboys won 27-17. Super Bowl XXXIII ? Hall of Famer John Elway (Denver) vs. Chris Chandler (Atlanta). The Broncos won 34-19. Chandler had 1 TD pass and 3 INTs. The most obscure Super Bowl-winning QB was Baltimore's Trent Dilfer in Super Bowl XXXV, but it wasn't a mismatch because equally-obscure Kerry Collins started for the New York Giants. :wink:
As previously stated, the Jet defense in 1968 (it was the 1968 season - the Super Bowl was played in January 1969) was the top rated defense in the AFL and was the best in football against the run. And did you realize that Namath only threw only threw 15 TD passes that entire season???? The 1968 Jets were a complete team with a great defense, a strong running game and a QB
Daryl Lamonica was a good QB. Earl Morral was the MVP of the NFL in 1968 The mismatch in 1985 was the Bear defense against Eason. McMahon was an average NFL QB that played on a team that had the best defense I have ever seen and arguably the best RB in NFL history. In fact, McMahon kind of makes the case that you don't need a great QB if you have the defense. You left out some other mismatches: Jeff Hoestetler vs Jim Kelly (oops, the Giants won that one with, what do youknow, a great defense and a running game) Mark Ryien v Jim Kelly (oops - the better TEAM won again) Kurt Warner v Tom Brady (NFL MVP vs wide-eyed newbie- better team won again) There are dozens of examples. If the Bears win next week - and I think they will - what will that do to the dominant QB argument? I think the Bears defense, running game and superior return game will lead them to a win.
