When I read this stat about his interceptions, my gut said that wasn't bad, less than one a game. But I wanted to compare. Very interesting. Ramsey's 29 interceptions in 34 total games translates to an average over 16 games of 13.6 for a season. Is that good? Well..over a 16 game season, here are some averages to compare: Tom Brady 13.2 Troy Aikman 13.7 Dan Marino 16.7 Phil Simms 15.3 Brett Favre 18.1 Kurt Warner 17.1 YA Tittle 19.9 Johnny Unitas 19.2 Fran Tarkenton 17.3 Roger staubach 13.3 and finally Joe Namath 25.1 So I would say that from a statistically standpoint, Ramsey's just fine. May be other concerns about Ramsey, but turning the ball over should not be one of them.
The problem here is that those are game appearances.... not starts. i think he only has 23 starts.... and now he looks awful, INT stat-wise.
First, I understand that I am nothing more than a football fan, and an amatuer evaluator of NFL talent, so I realise I could be very wrong about Ramsey. Add in the fact that I haven't see a whole lot of him, pretty much just the Giants games and any nationally televised games, my opinions are based on limited info, and not having seen near as much of Ramsey to have great confidence in my opinion of him. Having said that, it's still my opinion. Hey, I'd be thrilled if he turns out to be a solid starter, as I think both Leinart and Cutler will be gone by the time the Jets pick. We need to spend at least two first day picks on the O line though, or any QB will get killed again, in a repeat of last year's dismall showing.
I don't think the expectations on Ramsay will be high in NY. The way I look at it is, Ramsey is a heckuva improvement over Bollyball, and he will at least push Chad to be the starter.
Well, you can not just ignore games he appeared in and focus only on starts. Time on the field is time on the field. And of all the other guys I listed, we dont know how many of the games played were starts or not. I can remember Roger Staubach in and out of games in his early years in a 2 QB system with Craig Morton
Trading for Ramsey doesn't mean they won't go for a QB in the draft. I'm sure that decision will come down to how much value they see in any QB there. My initial impression of your front office is that they are going to find bargains in the draft and free agency. I think that's smart. Eventually, you'll end up with more overall value on your roster. I think you have the right idea about building the O line first. The list of QBs who were number one picks but failed because they went to bottom feeder teams who couldn't protect them is endless.
Now, we're in agreement. In 1981, Bobby Beathard gave us one helluva draft which, added to the talent already on board, gave us the foundation of our glory years with Joe Gibbs. He supplied us with seven starters in one draft. In that year, we picked up Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, and Mark May for our O line...three reasons why we won Super Bowls with three different QBs.
How do you feel about wins and losses as stats? In those 23 starts, Ramsey was 10 -13. Over the same span (2002 - 4) the Skins were 8 - 17 in games not started by Patrick Ramsey. Given the same personnel, same system, same coaching (Spurrier and Gibbs) as our other QBs ...he was clearly our best for three years running. I'm not making the case that he's great. I'm saying the jury is still out on how good this guy can be in the right situation.
You make intelligent arguments on behalf of Ramsey. I'm wondering if your fellow Skins fans share your opinion. What's the feeling down there about the trade and about Ramsey in general.?
Uh oh. Catfight breaks out in the Jets threads as two Redskins duke it out on the mat... Ramsey didn't clearly "outplay" Brunell. Brunell was in his first year on the team and -- on top of that -- got hurt (hamstring). Gibbs was coming in, the blocking scheme for Portis hadn't been worked out yet, the receiving corps was (ahem!) in disarray. Yeah... Ramsey "outplayed" Brunell. But only a diehard Ramsey loyalist would mistrust the evaluation of a Hall of Fame coach. A new nickname has sprung up on Hail Redskins which is rather illuminating. He's now referred to as "TTT" -- the Tulane Turnover Torpedo. :rofl: I like Patrick, he's a good kid with raw skills, but I wouldn't pick him to guide my franchise. That said, I hope he flourishes in NY. I truly do. I'm just glad our particular controversy in DC is over. Well, unless we show up in NY debating how we could have possibly let the next Jay Shroeder slip through our fingers...
Those numbers are... um... I hardly know what to say there. The bottom line is this: the system that Gibbs installed calls for smart decisions with the football. Often, a QB will lose a game because of poor management (not throwing the ball away, not finding the right read, etc). And on that note, Ramsey failed the test. He has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long, to not look off his primary receiver, to depend on his arm strength when finesse and cooler heads should prevail. That said, remember, it all depends what system you're installing here in NY. Gibbs is rabid about "smart football" i.e. no turnovers and production. Ramsey was either too uncomfortable or trying to do too much within those parameters. He was Spurrier's guy from day 1. Nuff said.
I agree, but the original poster used game appearances as game starts when looking at INT's per game. I was just pointing out that that was skewed, because they weren't game starts.... maybe looking at throws-INT's is a more accurate way to look at his turnover tendencies? Do you love Jason Cambell as much as you love Ramsey? Just curious.
(grinning) Hey, you didn't think you could come up here and mislead the New York innocents on this board and not get called on it...did you? Which HOF coach am I mistrusting? The one who named Ramsey his starter after the 2004 season...or the one who took the job away after Patrick went out with a minor neck sprain early in his first 2005 start?
Not at all! Intelligent debate is why I came. The one that took us from being a doormat in the NFC East to a 10-6 playoff contender in 2 years. Yeah -- that guy.
Well..I was the original poster and I was only responding to the comment to the intercepption to game played ratio that was brought up as a negative regarding Ramsey. However, let me go back to the list of QBs I made and analyse Ramsey vs them in terms of Interceptions vs Passes attempted and then I will divide that by.... OOPS..Sorry..gotta go. My life just called
Jury's still out. Here's what I do love (take it for what it's worth): 1 - Joe traded UP for the guy when he was available. Joe is not rash. Joe watched a lot of film that year because Carlos Rogers was at Auburn as well. In Joe I trust... he certainly pulled a major coup by trading up for a guy named Cooley. 2 - The buzz is electrifying. What buzz? Internal house buzz. Gregg Williams, who of course runs our D, says the kid is deadly accurate and a biatch to bring down. He runs our scout team and often, we're told, outperforms the starter they face on Sunday. 3 - He's had a full year to mature, watch film, etc. 4 - He has a full array of weapons around him. 5 - He's mobile, athletic, humble, another "character" guy. 6 - His knock, if you study the scouting reports, is his read of coverages. If I'm worried about anything, I'm worried that he won't fully exploit that potential. 7 - In answer to number 6 above, Campbell rather takes after a guy who Gibbs found great success with, a guy who won the Super Bowl for Joe, a guy named Doug Williams. I scratched my head about the pick at first... but time and time again, Joe makes fools of all of us Redskin fans who try and outsmart him. After awhile you just sit back and say, "Go man, go." It's nice having a coach like that, but you folks in NY should know what that's like as well as anybody. I mean, Joe Torre is kinda untouchable now, isn't he? As untouchable as any Steinbrenner employee could be, anyway...
