I think alittle to much of the blame is going on the NT position. Is part of the problem, D rob's size and his habit of wearing down very quickly as a result? Yes. The reality is, that no 3-4 NT is perfect. Watch Jamal Williams or Vince Wilfork sometime. Both of them have their share of plays in which they get pushed backward by the center alone. It's just the nature of taking that many blows. D rob may not be the ideal NT, but we could do alot worse. But plenty of times, it is pretty obvious that D rob IS doing his job, and the defense STILL gives up 4-5 yards a pop. The reason? Well for one Ellis, coleman or both are getting blown off the ball, and Linebackers are either missing tackles are not getting off blocks. I know the easiest thing in the world is to just blame D rob/the NT position for everything..but watch the tape...there are many times when the center of the D is clogged and a double team is intact and yet the ball carrier is 8-9 yards downfield.
When you look at the ILBs in the Ravens defense, at the snap of the ball , they are moving forward to take on the blockers/ballcarrier at or near the LOS. Our ILBs wiat for the play to come to them, or try to run around blockers. That is why every tackle is 5+ yards deep. Our ILBs are too soft. No attitude. No mean streak. Period.
I don't think it's because they're too soft. I think it's because they're awareness isn't at an NFL level. In college Vilma's athleticism and speed made up for this. In the pros his lack of proper anticipation is being exposed. He just doesn't have a nose for the ball the way you need your ILB to have.
Maybe. All I know is I am sick of seeing Vilma standing like a statue 6 yards deep wainting to get blown out of the play bu the first blocker to come allong. It seems more like a lack of aggression than awareness, but you may be right. You are definitely right about his play in the pros vs college. I think his natural talent against smaller and slower opponents helped him greatly. And playing behind Wilfolk didn't hurt either.
You can't put all of the blame on Drob, Vilma, or the scheme. It's a combination of personnel and coaching, and just playing like crap...
Great... that's just about everything. Players suck, coaches suck, and we play like crap. That is much more depressing than blaming a couple of players or a scheme.
Some of the Fans on this show piss me off so much. More half of the people on this thread just cant get it into there small heads what 3-4 players are supposed to do. How big they have to be, what there jobs are. One example is this right here. 1. In a 3-4 lbs get less tackles. because there are 4 lbs to make plays rather than 3. 2. In a 3-4 the chance of a lb making a stop on 3rd and short is extremely small since lbs are so undersized against a guard. more time its going to be athe dline stuffing the front and the rb having no where to go. Also people dont understand that 3-4 lineman dont put up big stats. they arent gonna be the ones sacking people.
I'm not saying Vilma needs to be making 12-15 tackles a game. However, he's our most highly touted player and is mostly invisible.
the jets never run blitz, why not? most teams in the nfl do, but the jets lb's are always dancing behind the d-line, reading. hit some gaps every once in a while, it could end up catching the offense off balance.
If we can get more production out of the D line our linebacker productivity will improve greatly. Look at Ray Lewis before he got Ngata to keep opposing OL off of him. It doesn't matter if you are the greatest LB on earth, you are not going to be that productive when you have 300 lbs. linemen up in your grill every single play. Could our ILBs play better? Without a doubt. However, if we can upgrade our DL it will improve our defense a lot more versus if we just uprgraded our ILBs. The Chargers and the Patriots have different ILBs and DBs from year to year. The one constant is the DL. The DL is what makes the 3-4 go. Without a strong DL the 3-4 is not going to function like it is supposed to.
i agree with you 100% on the d-line point, but we do not have the patriots type of d-line. we have smallish players or players who fit a different style d. we gotta go with what we got so we might as well make the best of what we got, true? so why doesnt our coaching staff think this way?
At this point the only rationale that I can come up with that makes sense is that Mangini feels that the 3-4 is the only way to cope with the Patriots over the long run and that the Jets have to develop a successful 3-4, whatever the cost. In that light you hope that the talent you have will adjust or be replaced incrementally over time. The adjustments and replacements have thus far been inadequate for the Jet's defense to be an acceptable 3-4. That leaves a ton of work to be done this off-season because a 3rd successive bad defensive season would probably do Mangini in, given that he is from the defensive side of the ball. Herm got shown the door after the 2nd really bad year by the Jet's defense (2003, 2005). I suspect that Mangini will survive a terrible defensive performance by the Jets this season but will be very much under the gun next season. Hopefully the Jets get a good NT and a good pass-rushing ROLB and they make the adjustment.
I still don't get how going to a 4/3 with a crappy 4 man line and average outside LB's is going to make our D better?
I don't think it will right now. I don't think with the personnel that the Jets have on the roster that they can run a competent 4-3 or 3-4. That's why I think the offseason is going to be so crucial to determining whether or not we're on the path or stuck in the brambles. I think a 4-3 would be less bad than this 3-4 though. Not having a NT is really killing the Jets. Having D-Rob back at tackle with Kenyon Coleman or Sione Pouha at the other tackle would at least give the Jets a presence inside that beats what they have now. Then again, as you point out neither alignment is likely to be good.
The Jet defense has 3 starters and 8 back ups on the field. After Rhodes, Harris and Revis there isn't too much to get excited about. WE are looking at a .500 year here unless a miracle happens. Look for Mangini to make a change with Sutton next off season.
I don't expect a Herm like throw-Bob-under-the-bus move here. If it's Mangini's defense, which I believe it is, he'll take responsibility, not pass the buck. I hope.
The root of the problem is we are too undersized in too many places. You can't have undersized linemen and undersized ILBs in this scheme and be effective against the run. DROB should be playing DE in this scheme. Him and Coleman with a monster NT would be a good DL. I think Vilma played fairly well yesterday. He made some plays.
