Watching Mangini at the press conf after the game, I was immediately put in mind of Kotite during the 1-15 season - the same vacant look, the same loss for words, the same repeated mantras (we work hard, I saw good things, its disappointing, yadda yadda yadda). The stubborness is now starting to look ridiculous, its obvious he started to believe all the crap people were saying about him last year. So much so that he got arrogant, and now can't back it up. Arrogance when you win is fine (Belicheck) but when you can't walk the walk you look like a fool. It started with the Kendall mess this summer, and the arrogance may have lost him the team. He showed that the team came second to being an obedient cog in the wheel, and then preached that team team team is everything. Don't think the players haven't seen this, I think their overall lethargic play shows they are opting out of Mangini's "program". He and is coaches are showing that they are in way over their heads. But this is Jet procedure - instead of hiring proven winning coaches, we hire nobodies who cut their teeth here, do nothing, and leave and are never heard from again. We have had exactly 2 coaches in our history - Weeb Eubank and Bill Parcells. And those were the 2 most succesful times in Jet history - no coincidence. When they hired this guy, I said "here we go again". And I'm being proved right.
Of all the things in your thread, the most important point you make is "arrogance". It really has been and will continue to be Mangini's undoing. We can argue back and forth about whether Kendall was "worth it" or not, but for those of us are upset about his dismissal, it was really more about the way it was handled and the message it sent, more than the loss of the player. I think Mangini can be salvaged with a strong GM over the top. Tuna anyone?
I don't see where Mangini is "arrogant". He does not claim that he is the best coach or smartest etc. He may be bland in the press room but he is even keel. He never said that the Jets were going to be good this year because of last year. Every time he spoke this pre saeon he said last year will mean nothing. His stubborness with Chad....Do you really think he does not know what is going on? If Chad gets yanked, he never starts again. You are going to bench a QB that could start on more than half the teams in the league. I want Chad benched too, but this deciscion is not just for this season, It will imapct an organization and two careers.
The left guard isn't killing this team. And the GM did the right thing. Kendall went public, Moore did not. Moore got Paid, Kendall is gone..... If we were making a Superbowl Run that would be one thing. We arent. Show me any one of the games after week one, where the clear culprit was coaching, and not blown plays by the guys on the field.... you can't. HAs there been questionable play calling? of course.....but thats not the same as bad picks, missed tackles, and mised FGs. if you convert 10 of the 15 clearly identifiable bad plays (McCareins,Nugent,Pennington,Dyson), this team, for all its warts, is 4-1, instead of 1-4. Thats coaching. Execution on the field, is killing the team.
^No where do I say, or do I believe that Kendall would have made us 5-1 instead of 1-5. Like GSour said, it was the way it was handled and the message that was sent - speak out of turn, and we will not only get rid of you, we will humiliate you - EVEN IF IT HURTS THE TEAM. Putting your "system" above the good of the team. And Hobbes, execution on the field is killing the team? Where does good (or bad) execution begin? WITH THE COACHING STAFF, and their ability (or in this case inability or unwillingness) to adjust and plan according to talent. And yea, maybe with the right GM Mangini would be a winner in this league, but after 40 years I'm tired of being the playpen and training grounds for would be head coaches.
i wanted to start my own thread but since my post count isint 50 or more i couldnt, anyways, THIS is not kotite esque, here lies the problem we all got spoiled by winning last season, what i mean by that is we were in rebuilding mode last season, but we were winning so everybody forgot about rebuilding, if we didnt win 10 games last season everybody would be saying this season hey were supposed to suck were rebuilding, which by the way were are rebuilding whether u want to admit it or not another thing i've been hearing latley about how unpassinote our fans are that is NONSENSE, i live in tampa fl, and went to the game last weekend vs the giants, and i saw plenty of jets fans, they were tailgating doing the j-e-t-s chant e.c.t, at halftime lower tear section 121 on top of gate c me and a bunch of other jet fans were doing our chant, talking shit [in good fun] and losing our voices, when we scored we would celebrate and get loud, i dont know where these people who say our fans suck sit but at a 'road game' i was proud to be a jets fan
Let's just hope the best is yet to come, and Mangini finally sees the light. Kellen Clemens- our future
actually those kotite teams had plenty of talent and much of that talent was present in the 98 playoffs under parcells....... however, parcells brought in certain guys at certain positions that ended up being the necessary ingredients. one of those positions happened to be QB..... jil
Watching Mangini at the press conf after the game, I was immediately put in mind of Kotite during the 1-15 season - the same vacant look, the same loss for words, the same repeated mantras (we work hard, I saw good things, its disappointing, yadda yadda yadda). The stubborness is now starting to look ridiculous, its obvious he started to believe all the crap people were saying about him last year. So much so that he got arrogant, and now can't back it up. Arrogance when you win is fine (Belicheck) but when you can't walk the walk you look like a fool. It started with the Kendall mess this summer, and the arrogance may have lost him the team. He showed that the team came second to being an obedient cog in the wheel, and then preached that team team team is everything. Don't think the players haven't seen this, I think their overall lethargic play shows they are opting out of Mangini's "program". He and is coaches are showing that they are in way over their heads. But this is Jet procedure - instead of hiring proven winning coaches, we hire nobodies who cut their teeth here, do nothing, and leave and are never heard from again. We have had exactly 2 coaches in our history - Weeb Eubank and Bill Parcells. And those were the 2 most succesful times in Jet history - no coincidence. When they hired this guy, I said "here we go again". And I'm being proved right. Has there been any clock mismangement issues- NO..You want to second guess play calling..hell you can do that every play on sunday..They blitz more this week and Dyson can't tackle..Mangini's fault..chad throws a 20 yd up route 17 yds for a pick..who's fault is that..I think that team is prepared every week with a good game plan..In this league players have to make plays and execute because the line is very thin between winning and losing and unfortunatly the Jets are on the wrong side lately..To say Mangini is being arrogant is absurd..If anything he has acted loke a total professinal and not THROWING anyone under the bus to protect his ass..so your post is Bulls**t.
^Silly me, I thought I was talking about a 1-5 team that is playing without fire, passion, or intelligence, not this awesome team that you have been watching. And, just for the record, I wasn't comparing the team to the 1-15 team, I was comparing Mangini's look to the way Kotite looked during that awesome season. And if you are going to talk tough, about teamwork, systems, plans, "being on the same page", playing the best players, etc., your team better show it on the field. If not, you look like the clueless shlub that Mangini looks like right now. Billy B is having yet another good belly laugh at the Jet's expense. Of course, he knew all along.
That's what he was suppose to do. Parcells greatest thing is to turn teams around. No one ever thought he was in it for the long run. He did just what he was hired to do.
Please....Billy B, unlike most on this board, knows enough to know that you ahve to consider his Tenure in CLEVELAND, long before you get to New England, and then Mo Lewis making the greatest coaching decision ever made. Get a grip. The question is very simple.... Have the players been put, week in, week out, in a position to be successful? Yes. Mangini Does not make tackles, nor does he make Catches, or throw picks, or miss Fg's. And if you had half a clue as to what you were actually watching, there was a drastic improvement on the tackling yesterday. for the previous 2 weeks everyone was making arm grabs at opponents upper bodies....they got it corrected. Even the missed tackle on curtis had both guys going for the ankles.
Has there been missed tackles, yes. Has there been poor blocking, yes. Has there been botched secondary schemes, yes. Bad coaching isn't just wins and losses. It's how the game is being played and whether or not you see improvement. This team is up and down like a yoyo and that's bad coaching.
I agree that Mangini looks like a deer in the headlights & clueless in interviews. He comes off as an excuse maker. Even though I will always be a fan, please allow me to rave a bit below. I actually wrote this Sunday night but my email was down. A JETS FAN RAVINGS (Written 10/14/07) I am a 42 year old lifetime fan of the jets & it has never been worse. The QB with the huge heart & will is embarrassingly unable to throw a ball downfield without it looking like a punt, the receivers are left out to dry on the same dink & dunk routes that are thrown despite double coverage. The receivers cannot do the jobs that they were drafted to do. 2) The coach once known as Mangenious, now Mangidiot, defends the Jets game after game in the press conference pointing to a handful of bad plays. Professional teams are supposed to win & win by convincing margins, not play down to the wire & hope for a prayer. Mangini comes off as a catering, cowardly wimp & does nothing but defend the efforts of his team no matter what the effort. Thats why I liked Parcells, he knew that his job was to win with no excuses. He said that we are here to win & any failure to do so is unacceptable & would not be tolerated. Mangini comes off in interviews as a Junior High School coach, like the main goal is to play hard & show improvement & sportsmanship with complete disregard to wins & losses. He is not here to build the characters of 16 year old’s, he is coaching a professional football team. This kind of rhetoric couples him forever with "players coaches" such as Walton, Kotite, Coslet etc. 3) The Jets are expecting a mediocre defense to play perfect football because they cannot score, this is impossible in the NFL. The Patriots defense let up 27 points but scored 48 points today leaving a large margin for error. The Jets have not scored 48 since the Ken O’brien days. (I never thought I would look at those days so fondly. I bet you the jets have not had two four hundred yard passing game in twenty years. The last game that I remember a free flowing passing game in was Browning Nagles first NFL start VS Atlanta. How sad is that. Fans of other teams are treated to these aerial shows quite often. 4)There are three levels of performance in the NFL A) The teams that crush the opponents every week (dynasties such as champion era Cowboys & Niners). B) Those who win by small margins but always seem to win such as Patriots (Last decade), Steelers (decade), Denver Broncos (perennially). C)Teams that win most of their games but always in games decided by a crucial play late in the game that could have gone either way (See Jets). D) Teams that win almost none of their games and always in games decided by a crucial play late in the game (See Jets). I HAVE NEVER SEEM THE JETS AS OPTION A OR B!!! THAT WILL NOT CHANGE WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION & QB. THIS OFFENSE WITH PENNINGTON IS THE MOST VANILLA, UNWATCHABLE REFUSE THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE UNFORTUATE 35 YEARS OF WATCHING THIS TEAM INCLUDING KOTITE. WE ALWAYS HAD SOMETHING TO WATCH, WHETHER IT WAS AN OCCASIONAL BOMB TO WESLEY WALKER , AL TOON, DERRICK GAFFNEY OR ROB MOORE. IN OTHER YEARS IT WAS THE PASS RUSH OF KLECKO & GASTINEAU, NOW WE HAVE NOTHING. THIS STINKING GARBAGE OF AN OFFENSE WITH THE 5 YARD OUT PATTERNS IS POP WARNER TRASH, ALL MY FELLOW FANS AGREE, THE JETS SHOULD EXPECT PLENTY OF EMPTY SEATS IF THEY DO NOT SWITCH TO A GUY WITH A PROFESSIONAL GRADE ARM. CHAD IS A WARRIOR, BUT HE IS GOING INTO THE JUNGLE AGAINST M-16'S WITH A SQUIRT GUN. THE MUSCLE TONE IN HIS ARM MUST BE SIMILAR TO A WET NOODLE OR PUDDING IN A PLASTIC BAG. IT IS NOT FAIR TO THE REST OF THE TEAM. CHAD SHOULD TAKE HIS MONEY, BUY A BOAT & A MANSION & HAVE A NICE LIFE. I JUST STOP HOPE HE STOPS PLAYING LOUSY FOOTBALL AROUND HERE. MANGINI NEEDS TO MAN-UP & STOP BEING AFRAID OF HIS PLAYERS, HE HAS TO HAVE MORE BALLS THAN HE SHOWS. THX STEVE (BRIDGEWATER NJ)
