Just a general observation I wanted to throw out there. Not to piss off everybody whos trying to work the karma angle. But I see all these commentators, people who are continuously harping on how Tom Brady is one of the best ever to play the game, the things he does for this team are so unbelievably great, etc. etc.... and then they turn around and say sure, the Patriots will still win the division hands down with a quarterback who hasnt started a game since highschool, no problem. Logically speaking you can't have both. If the Patriots were winning because Brady was so great, then they can't be expected to continue to dominate without him. If you think that they can still beat every other team in the league after losing their quarterback, then it logically follows that their quarterback was not, in fact, the best ever. Im not hating on the Patriots here at all, lord knows this team has lost enough quarterbacks to injury that I have no choice but to commiserate with anybody from any other team who has to go through that. It just bugs me that people refuse to find any fault with any part of the Patriots organization. If your gonna tell me the Patriots win so many damn games because Brady is history's greatest quarterback, then don't tell me they won't have a problem continuing to win so many damn games without him, because its logically ridiculous to have it both ways.
Honestly, this is the founding reason for the karma stuff. If the pats win the SB or even go deep into the playoffs////
i agree with you these people are just trying to help the NFL, by talking their junk, we all know the pats as they are are probably winning 8 or 9 games hopefully if their second string is above average, if he is just servicable then the defense will be out there longer than they suppose to and will lose alot of games in the 3rd and 4th quarter. I say the jets sweep the pats, dolphins, split with the bills, and go on to win 10 or 11 games, i looked at the schedule and knowing favre will be comfortable with the system in about week 4 i dont see why not if we stay healthy... chargers lost a heavy duty pass rushing playmaker in merriman, pats lose brady, dolphins lose thomas and taylor, bills still have sucky QB's. Cheifs suck, niners only have a running game, rams only have a running game so we know whats the focus, seahawks dont really ahve recievers and has no running game, titans without vince young, bengals have no running game, man we could win 10 or 11 games.
+ 1,000,000 with the OP. Brady's biggest loss is an intangible one, but even then thats more fan fodder than anything to do with football. Business as usual for BB and he'll have a productive QB, if that guy is productive suddenly he's a dude was who just born to win.
Im with you bro if fuckin Matt Cassell who hasnt started a fuckin game since high school can just come straight into the starting lineup and continue to do what brady did or close and the pats still win the div. Its pretty obvious Brady was nothing but a product of Bellicheats system and Cassell or any other shitface could of got lucky instead of brady but... Well see.
I don't see the contradiction. For example, I believe the same thing of the Favre and the Packers. He's gone, but the team is still strong and deep, and the player they have in his place will probably be OK. This was also true of Montana/Young and the 49ers. Or ... do you suggest that because Young got to the superbowl with 49ers while Montana was hurt, that somehow prooves that montana was not a great quarterback? I guess I just don't understand your logic, it seems pretty shaky to me.
Just to add to your thoughts... My take on this? You are 1000% correct, DiscoStu! Not only that, but bad luck comes in bunches. I can see the Patriots (who even their fervent supporters will admit are an old team) suffering more injuries as the season wears on. One problem for the Jets is that we are also an older, veteran team... I am just hoping that the Favre luck stays with us until the end. Anyhow, the problem is that Patriots have been a great team for a very long time, and most "NFL experts" (and I include a few on this message board), look only at the past, and refuse to look ahead. It's like the Yankees--many people refuse to think they will miss the playoffs this year, even though it was obvious from spring training on.
Exactly. The pats fans are now using the argument (Excuse) that in 2001 Brady was crap and was just a game manager. I don't know about that, I didn't follow the NFL back then.
My fear is like the Ravens teams in the early 2000's that the pats will find ways to win despite have a very poor QB. The Bears made the Superbowl a couple of years ago with two QB's who could barely lead an NFL offense. Its not unheard of at all. I hope we beat the Pats. I think we now have a big advantage at QB. Sadly, there is 10 other guys on the field at all times so we have to worry about the defense AFC east champs. Brady or no Brady.
No Brady, No Secondary, Questionable O-Line. Did you know that Brady was hit more than any QB other than Palmer last year. The only reason the O-Line has good sack numbers is his ability and willingness to release the ball as he is being hit, and to remain effective as he does so.
Patriots will be lucky if the win another game all year, unless of course they play the Raiders, a team that I could play QB and still beat.
Talk about only seeing only what you want to :rofl: That "Questionable O-Line" gave up the fewest sacks of any in the entire NFL last year and sent 3 to the Pro-bowl . As for Brady being hit more than any other QB, please provide a link to back up your "made up claim". What's funny is that for every Patriot fan out their underestimating the loss of Brady, there are just as many Jets overestimating his loss. I got news for both sides, the AFC is now going to be a dog fight from here to the the end of the season.
The Pats have won SB in the Past with great Defense and a well rounded O. The last several years they have lost in the playoffs because their D hasn't held up and there running game hasn't been that good in the playoffs. Brady is a great QB no doubt about that but the Pats don't need to win 13 to 16 games by 14 to 21 points to win the division. Reality is this division is likely to be won with 10, 11 or 12 wins. Play good D run the ball and strike occassionally and you can win 10, 11 or 12 games by 3 to 10 points.
I agree with most of your post, any Patriot fan is in denial if they think it's not going to hurt bad. However there is one thing that your not considering, in your question as to :how the Patriots will win this year". First off the Patriots went 18-1 last year and in 75% of those games the game was over by half time. That's the greatness of Brady and it can't be replaced in any way shape or form. However what Jet fans will sadly come to realize is that this Patriot team doesnt need beat teams by three scores to win games it only has to beat them by 1 point. The reality is that even if Cassel is half the QB Brady is, that still puts this team at 10 or 11 wins and every bit in the hunt. Now feel free to call me a crazy homer if you like, but I know football and I know this team, the reality is it's going to be a very interesting season.
Well, different for a lot of reasons. First, regarding the Packers. They've spent the last four years waiting for Brett to leave. They have their hand-picked first rounder, who the whole team supports and whos done well in live game action on a number of occasions, waiting in the wings to take over. So its not even close to the same thing as Brady getting knocked out in week 1 and having a nobody come in to replace him. Montana/Young is that 1 in a million exception where the backup ends up being a great one as well. It also happened of course when Bledsoe got hurt and Brady took over. But as a Jet fan, you should have experienced first hand, as I have, that the backup usually sucks. That was the exception to the universal rule... and even in that case, when Montana went down, I doubt, at that moment, that fans and the media were saying, "Its cool, who needs Montana? Well still be the best in the league." This is my real point. Not that its impossible for the Patriots to go anywhere, not that its impossible for Cassel to end up being worth a damn, just that if we're assuming that Brady really is one of the all-time greats, then at this point, yes, there is serious and legitimate doubt as to how this team will fare without him, and nobody is willing to acknowledge it. I get why the players won't acknowledge that fact, nobody wants to say anything to get the Patriots all riled up (Im sure they will anyway, its kinda sick imo how they manufacture this whole 'us against the world' shit every year, get over it), but I'm sure deep down every Jet player knows that the Patriots loss of Brady did about as much for their Super Bowl chances as the acquisition of Favre. The media on the other hand has no reason not to state the obvious. You lose a great one, and 99.9% of the time, your record will reflect it. Heck when the 99 Jets lost Vinny people rightly wrote them off, and it pains me to say this but Vinny wasn't anything really particularly great even back then. We still had Curtis Martin, we still had a great defense, but nobody was afraid to say that without our quarterback we were screwed to the wall. So to clarify. The point I was trying to make was not that the Patriots won't win a game this year, or even that they can't make the playoffs. Certainly what other people have been saying is true, they're a well rounded, talented team. But so are the Chargers, and if they lost Tomlinson, you wouldn't see anybody saying, "Its okay, theyre still the team to beat." If you really believe that your guy is one of the best in the league, then don't tell me you won't miss a beat when you lose him unexpectedly for the season.
Enough with the karma stuff...there is no such thing...in sports...in life...period. Corey Dillon whining his way out of Cincinnati and winning a title the next year with the Pats is proof...shall I go on? If I see one more tip jar at a coffee shop with a label that says "Karma Kup" I am going to throw-up in it.
