What Herbert has done is what I expected Sam to do. Maybe not in his first season, but certainly by now. I never even heard of Herbert before yesterday. Im sure he wasnt as well regarded as Sam at draft time. In 9 games Herbert has more 300 yard passing games than Sam does in 29 (5 to 4). If you drop it 264 Yards Herbert has done that 8 of 9 games and Sam 7 of 29. All of this nonsense is just because im so jealous. We all know Herbert is already much better than Sam. Guess it feels better to type it. Well no, not really. At this point im hoping we get Trevor and hes as good as Herbert.
Sam is very talented, but he has weaknesses. If he had had better support (players and coaching) around him while on the Jets, maybe he could have overcome those weaknesses. The Jets totally blew it with Sam.
Herbert is what happens when you have a competent coaching staff and talent surrounding your young QB. Herbert didn't play in a "pro style" offense in college yet he's had almost no issues adjusting just halfway through his first season. That's coaching. Yes it's also on the kid himself but they've made it so easy for him to navigate the seas. Sam needed coaching out of college and we gave him the worst head coach in Jets history plus absolutely no talent to work with. Maybe we'll get it right this time around with Mims and Lawrence. Probably not, but maybe.
As Jets fans we have a battered wife syndrome unfortunately. We try to justify everything that goes wrong. Sam is bad, oh well he is bad because he doesn't have a line, he is bad he doesn't have weapons, he is bad because he had many OC's. Bullshit. Either you have it or you don't/ Herbert shows it, Burrow showed it. Darnold is below those guys and that's why we need to move on and pick another young QB and proceed.
I agree, but I heard Keyshawn Johnson also say its because he has no help and that he would keep Sam and build around him. Is there any other young QB in the league that has very little talent around him and is still playing well?
yes and no. We definitely have to move on because Darnold doesn’t have “it“ but we also did everything in our power to make sure he didn’t have “it“. Arizona gave Murray a legitimate offensive guru as his head coach, drafted young receivers and then traded for a star. Buffalo found a way to make Josh freaking Allen a legitimate starting quarterback in this league and what did they do? They hired the right staff, designed the offense to bring him along slowly, drafted talent around him, signed talent and then traded for the star. The formula isn’t all that hard, the problem is the people trying to execute it. We have the worst in the league. It’s not a coincidence that the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL also can’t find a quarterback. after a while, it’s not the quarterbacks fault. Now between Becton, Mims, may be Perine it seems like we are on the right track but we are already three years deep with a kid who needed coaching day one. we have to bail, and it’s 75/25 on the organization
Spot on! I wasn't a big Darnold fan, I actually preferred Rosen (shows you how much I know), but I did watch a lot of video and the expert film breakdowns, and decided Darnold had a good shot at being a FQB. Of course that judgment completely ignored the QB-killing DNA of the Jets organization. But you know I rationalized my thought by telling myself that surely the Jets have finally gotten it, they understand the critical need for a FQB, and that offense is now king! HAH! What a fool, what a dreamer! No, they didn't, and no they still don't. They're like the drunken loser of a husband who spends all his money on booze and gambling until finally his wife says: "I've had it! You're a bum! You never even bring me flowers for gods sake!", and so he "proves" he's not a bum and comes home the next day with a dozen roses...and then goes out drinking with his buddies. Anyone who thinks that just drafting Lawrence or Fields is going suddenly make this team good, is like that abused wife. If the Jets don't fire Gase, and invest heavily and primarily on offense this off season, I for one will be filing for "divorce". If Sam is lucky, they'll trade him, they don't deserve a second chance at helping him become a good QB, if that's now even possible.
If we don't fire Gase then literally nothing else matters. Not Lawrence, not the best free agent WR on the market, nothing. Gase is the worst coach I've ever seen and cannot succeed in the NFL. Anything done with Gase still employed is a waste of time.
I'm afraid I disagree with this. There are very few natural talents that just have it IMO and even they need the right situation. For the rest how you develop and surround them is the key factor. The Jets have destroyed Darnold and unless they change the way they operate they will almost certainly destroy the next guy too.
Pro-style experience hasn't mattered since the 1990s. Crusty old coaches and scouts just like to pretend it does so they can still feel like they're relevant.
I wouldn’t say 90s. I wouldn’t even say 2000s. I think 2016ish is when it became way more “ok” for a QB to not play in a pro style offense because the pro style has slowly been adapting to college style. But yes, Herbert basically underscores the fact that it doesn’t matter anymore.
Sam was higher regarded then watson, herbert, burrow, etc. which is why with tlaw it's buyer beware. the draft is a crapshoot. we also did nothing to help sam. herbert has a good team around him. burrow on th eother hand is in almost as bad of a spot as sam. almost.
I think the truth lies somewhere between Brook's and your posts. There are some QBs who have "it" the talent, the confidence, the right mental make up that will succeed no matter what. There are also some who have it, but can be beaten down and lose "it" by being drafted by the wrong team who refuses to build around him and/or has a HC that tries to force the QB to play in a way that doesn't fit his talent and mental approach (forcing a square peg into a round hole). There are also guys who have talent, but don't have the "it" factor. They can become quality QBs in the NFL but they need the right situation...the right HC, the right offensive scheme, a solid OL, solid rushing attack, and quality weapons around them. Then there are those who could possibly develop, and do, but are late bloomers. Then there are those with talent, but don't have the right mental makeup, and who aren't lucky enough to wind up in a great situation (i.e., the right situation that would nurture and develop their ability). I think Sam falls into this last category. He has talent and playmaking ability, can create, is mobile, can throw on the run, but he doesn't have the right mental makeup and doesn't have the right kind of intelligence or leadership ability to succeed.
Oh I agree with this and did try to convey that. Some guys do just have it, but I think they are very much the minority personally. The majority need to be put in the right situation and allowed to thrive.
He ran as pro-style of an offense as there is in college. Oregon was a power run team with Herbert there and one of the knocks was that they never took the kid gloves off and 1) moved him around and take advantage of his athleticism or 2) let him throw the ball move. They ran/run the pistol with heavy run and play action. It's just out of the shotgun. Mario Cristobal is an old school ball coach. The Chargers are 3-7 and Anthony Lynn is a game under .500 with what looks like will be back to back losing seasons. They have some better pieces at the skill positions, but maybe, just maybe, Herbert is the much better player and was the much better prospect to translate his game to the pros? There's always so many excuses surrounding why Darnold sucks. Maybe he just sucks?
