I got a cool new idea for a thread. A sort of NFL Football wiki where the more knowledgeable posters like Kurt, Abyzmul, Beamen, *ahem* JetsIn2004, etc. can educate the rest of us on how the game really works. It'll be fun to learn more about the game and even give us things to watch on the field, making for better discussion and a better board overall. Hopefully it'll grow into a thread that can be referenced as a source of good information. It might even help avoid blow-ups in other threads due to misunderstanding. A lot of guys on the board have a cursory knowledge of the technical side of the NFL game. My understanding of the game is based on high school and supplemented by what I've picked up on TGG. I've read thru wikipedia on football strategy, etc., but they don't really get into much detail. I wanna know stuff like proper hand placement for an O-lineman and when a safety is supposed to play back vs. when he should be on the line. I think this thread has a lot of potential. Let's start with some 3-4, since Mangini's exciting new toy is bringing positive expectations. What are the typical responsibilities of each position in the 3-4 defense? How are each player's assignments decided on a long-term game-planning basis, and on a more immediate, in-game, play-by-play basis?
Me likey. In all honesty, I have a far reaching and general understanding of FB. Positions and formations and what they mean, I get all of that; but I'm too impatient to learn the true complexities of it. I get lost on strategy at times. Being an armchair dolt is always great. Anyway, it is NOT a 'dumb' game. Stats bore me when they're one dimensional. Maybe they shouldn't.
In a real basic, stripped down 3-4, the gap responsibilities would go like this: NT: Strong A SILB: Strong B WILB: Weak A SDE: Strong C WDE: Weak B SOLB: Strong D/Outside Contain WOLB: Weak C/Outside Contain But in the NFL, and even in college, a lot of times teams will shift around the front, and the responsibilities, in an attempt to free up certain players and/or exploit mismatches... We use a 3-4 Over and a 3-4 Under look pretty often, which a lot of people mistake for a 4-3. In these fronts, the line shifts one gap over (to the strong or weak side, depending on the call) and the OLB steps up to the line. The reason this isn't a real 4-3 is because the LB retains coverage responsibilities, and the gap responsibilities remain the same as they would be in a shifted 3-4, even with the LB back. For example, if we are in an Over look, the Strong OLB will step up to the line, and play the D gap. His responsibilities are exactly the same as they would be in a regular 3-4 look, but his alignment is different.... Sometimes the coaches will use this kind of thing to throw a wrench into the offensive gameplan, by putting the LB up on the line, and then dropping him to the flats, in an attempt to disrupt any sort of screen pass etc. Other times they'll play it straight up, and relatively often, they'll send that up LB as the 4th pass rusher... The reason in a 3-4 that the emphasis is often on bigger linemen who can control gaps is because of how they are often aligned. The DL in a 3-4 are rarely, if ever, head-up on an OL. They position themselves in the gap, and make it their job to demand a double team. So, looking at the basic gap responsibilities. If the NT demands a double team from the C and G while attacking the strong A gap, and the DE makes it his job to work THROUGH the T while attacking the strong C gap, that leaves the SILB with nobody in his way while he controls the B gap. Ideally, the OLB would have nobody to stop him from controlling the outside either. If the linemen get a significant push, that should cause any running plays designed for the A or C gaps to be cut back inside, or bounced outside. In either situation the freed up LB makes the play. A great 3-4 line makes mediocre LBs look like superstars, because anyone can make plays when they are unblocked.... I myself am a mediocre, undersized LB, who has become a league All-Star simply because I play behind a great DE in a 3-4...
Good stuff Beamen...the picture is clearer already...congrats on the all-star. So it seems that the OLBs have the coverage responsibilities...do the ILBs ever have to drop back or pick up a crossing TE/RB? Who on the O is usually responsible for picking up that unblocked LB? Can a good DE demand a DT from the TE and really free things up?
The ILBs will usually be responsible for splitting the middle of the field in the area up to about 10-12 yards, called the 'Hook-Curl' zone... In a Cover-2 or a Cover-3 or a Cover-4, you'll often hear the terms "Two-under" "Three-Under" etcetera. That refers to the LBs who play zone coverage in that shorter zone 'under' the deep Cover-2 or 3. That hook-curl zone is where a lot of the drags, sits, and curls occur, and that's why you often see ILBs matched up with TEs. Also, this is really where exploiting the holes in the zone (especially the Cover-2) comes into play. In generally, in a Cover-2 scheme, the CBs are responsible for playing the flats, with the Ss playing the deep halves of the field. If a team is confident enough in the coverage abilities of its OLBs, it can send them to that mid-range zone between the CB & the S. Generally though, a 3-4 team in a Cover-2 will play a 4-under scheme (even though they'll often send 1 or more LB) and that area just between the CBs and Ss will be uncovered. It's a small crease (especially if the CB & S have good communication & teamwork) but it is exploited a LOT in the NFL... If one LB is sent on a blitz, the other LBs are responsible for shifting their zones appropriately, to compensate for the hole. In man coverage, the ILBs will typically drop to that same zone, and react by covering any RBs who come out of the backfield. Again, this depends on the blitz schemes, as if, for example, the WOLB is sent on a blitz in a Cover-1 (with the FS being the free, deep man) the WILB may end up matched up 1-on-1 with the weak-slot WR... In general, in man coverage, the CBs get the first man out, the Ss get the second (unless there is a free man, in which case on S gets the #2 on his side, and the other plays the deep zone), the OLBs get the #3, and the ILBs get the #4. If a LB is free, he generally drops straight back in a hook-curl zone. If the offense calls a double team on a running play, conceding that an OL will not get to the ILB, generally there will be a lead blocker (FB, H-Back) who is responsible for clearing out that last defender. Ideally, for the offense though, they will be able to handle the 3 DL with 3 OL, and the 2 extra will be able to move to the next level and pick up the LBs. On your last point, absolutely, and that's one of the reasons I hate Kenyon Coleman. If you have a 3-4 DE lining up outside shade of the OT and successfully filling his gap while working through the OT, the offense may call in a TE to help out (thus preventing him from going into a pass-pattern, or blocking a LB).... If you have 2 of the 3 DL in a 3-4 demanding double teams consistently, you're golden on D. As far as the often-free OLBs in a 3-4, in running situations you'll often have WRs, TEs or backs come in on what is referred to a crack-back block, in order to stall these guys (I've been taken off my feet pretty bad, when I wasn't aware of an impending crackback.. hurts like a bitch) A lot of the time with this, the slot WR, will come on an angle, looking to blind-side the OLB right off the snap... Sometimes, to add extra momentum, the crack-back block will be thrown by a player who had been coming in motion towards the line, and can continue his momentum into the block on the snap... This is especially effective if the OLB is playing up towards the line, as the distance is short, and he will often be focused on beating the man in front of him... Here's a really basic Cover-2 out of a 3-4. In this case, both OLBs are being sent.... I'm not crazy about the diagram, but it illustrates the ILBs responsibilities pretty well.. EDIT: I found a better image.... In this picture, the 20 is the LOS... The 'No-Zone' area is the tackle box... That 'Out' zone is the area that teams with very athletic OLBs may send them in a Cover-2, so as to close the hole in the zone. Their zone would then be a Curl-Out, instead of a Hook-Curl. I'd like to assume that most teams have shied away from that approach though, as it is SO difficult for a LB to play run first, and still make it to that zone in a Play Action situation... And if those LBs stop playing run first, and try to bail-out to that Out zone off the snap, the Off-tackle runs become wide open..
Also, I'd like to add as a disclaimer.. I'm a defensive guy... I can answer in real basic terms questions about offenses, as I've had to study them to play against them, and I've seen plenty of NFL games, but I think we need someone with real offensive expertise in here.... I know a lot of technique stuff about playing O, but not so much in terms of scheme..
Wow, Beaman, excellent stuff. What are your credentials? Are you a coach, did you play some college ball? I'm not trying to call you out or anything, you clearly know your shit, just curious. MODS, change the name of this thread to the ASK BEAMAN thread. My first question: Is their a nose tackle in a 4-3 system? Do each of the tackles have a unique responsibility or are they both just trying to clog and free up the Ends?
I played one year of DIAA ball at Butler U as a SS, before I had to drop off due to grades. I'm an assistant varsity high school coach upstate now, and I play Semi-Pro ball in the RAFL. Played one year in the NAFL. I have a try-out coming up with the Albany Conquest of Arena II in a couple months. Tried out for the Montreal Alouettes in February, but ran into trouble because I lied about my age, and wasn't actually eligible to play... I thought I did alright at the tryout though... :shit: I don't have a huge amount of experience (years wise), but I take it seriously, and am trying to get paid, so it pays to know as much as possible... There usually is, technically, a NT in the 4-3, but his responsibilities differ from a 3-4 NT... One thing to remember is that in a 3-4, the LBs often have one gap they are responsible for each, so if the DL can control the OL, and hold their ground in their gaps, the Lbs will make plays. In a 4-3, the LBs often have to cover more than one gap... The Mike in a 4-3 gets to roam, Tackle to Tackle, so the DTs need to get some sort of penetration, to help him out... I know you hear the term '3T' or 5'T' all the time, so I just want to give a quick run down of what that means... The 'technique' is all about alignment, and it's really simple.... As I said before, DL rarely, if ever line up head-up on an OL. The technique refers to what lineman they are 'shading'... A 1T means the DL is on the shoulder of the C. A 2T means he is on the inside shoulder of the G. 3T is outside shoulder of the G (See DRob, Warren Sapp). 4T is inside shoulder of the Tackle. 5T is outside shoulder of the tackle. and 6T is inside shoulder of the TE. Your NT in a 4-3 will probably line up at 1T (often, not always on the weak-side) and the 2nd DT will be a 3T (often, again not always, on the strong side) Again, because you are looking for penetration with your DL (especially the DEs) the gap responsibility isn't as strict in a 4-3, and therefore you may only have 1 (the NT) or 0 DL who are strictly working to control their gap...
I'll post in this thread from time to time. I'll start off with an old post on the 46 defense. To run that you need cornerbacks who can really cover wide receivers. The key to the 46 defense is time. The defense wants to rush the QB and ruin his chance to throw a good pass. The 46 alignment is a 4-4-3. The 46 defense got its name from Bears free safety Doug Plank. He wore #46. Plank moved up to play middle linebacker in the original 46, which had a 5-1-5 alignment. The 46 in a nutshell- Three defensive linemen across from the center and guards. (These were the best pass rushers.) The weakside end lined up outside the offensive tackle. The strongside linebacker lined up across from the tight end. The weakside linebacker moved to the strongside in a blitzing lane outside the tight end. The two inside linebackers were off the line and opposite the offensive tackles. There's the eight-man front. Five to eight players would blitz.
Good stuff Beamen! I am an offensive coach, and love breaking down NFL games, specifically giants. But good analysis on defense. I am currently in the middle of breaking down NFCCG in GB. But wanted to give you props from one person in the industry to another.:up:
Hand placement w/ O-lineman...it's all about having the quicker hands. Get your hands on your opponent in the right spot, and if you have the proper strength/technique...you arent gonna lose the battle. When run blocking, the proper hand placement is one hand right above each number. This is the best leverage point to push the defender exactly where you want him to go. You'll see when alot of lineman get in trouble on running plays..it's when they don't have proper knee bending or they get sloppy w/ their hand placement. It's unbelieveable how simple it is..but how often guys get sloppy w/ it. When pass blocking...it's pretty much the same for interior linemen. Get your hands inside, win the leverage battle..and before the DT can make a counter move and get through all the ocupied space, the ball is gone. However...for OT's.. You have to be alittle but more patient w/ hand placement b/c there's more space and if you're even slightly off balance..a DE can make a move on you. Typically w/ hand punches the OT's will start at the aforementioned "numbers" technique described above...but once the feet start shuffling they move to the outside portion of the shoulders in order to create more mobility.
^ Good stuff Kurt. I'd like to add one thing though. A lot of linemen find that lowering their hands just a couple inches when run blocking, from the top of the numbers, they can grasp the corners of the chest-plates on the shoulder pads. That's how a lot of linemen get away with technically 'holding' without getting called. So long as the hands are on the inside, and the ref can't see the jersey being pulled, they usually get away with it. And it is very, very hard to get off a block once the OL has a grip on your pads... And thanks S+M. Keep checking in on this thread, as I'd love to hear your input once some offensive scheme questions are asked...
Yeah I will def. my eye on this thread. We have couple guys on the giants board who were former D-1AA defensive coaches, so it's alot of fun talking Xs and Os with them. To me that's what makes MBs fun places to be.
