ProFootballFocus CB Rankings

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by dwalsh, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. dwalsh

    dwalsh 2006 TGG.com Rookie of the Year Award Winner

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    Signature Stats: First Downs Allowed – Cornerbacks
    For five seasons Pro Football Focus has been dedicated to breaking down the NFL on a play-by-play basis like no other. Speaking for the rest of the staff that has meant long hours and an inability to make full use of all the data we create.

    Only now the 2012 season is coming to a close, and with PFF more developed, are we starting to really delve into some revealing numbers. The upshot? Shiny, brand new Signature Stats available for discussion before they even hit the premium website — Signature Stats like this one:

    First Downs Allowed in Coverage

    It’s a relatively simple concept. We wanted to see which cornerbacks not only gave up the most first downs or touchdowns, but also who gave up the most relative to how often they’re in coverage. After all, someone in coverage for 500 snaps is infinitely more likely to give up results to the offense than a player in coverage for 300.

    Now to the data.

    Chain Movers

    Where better to start than the raw numbers showing who gave up the most first downs? In that respect, the first walk of shame belongs to Sean Smith, who was beaten for 40 first downs and six touchdowns in 2012. Those 46 combined first downs and touchdowns were one more than Cary Williams and Patrick Robinson, both of whom had 45 as their magical number. How about that, two of the three are about to be free agents. Interesting.
    Code:
    [B]      [u]Name[/u]       [u]1st Downs[/u]   [u]Touchdowns[/u]  [u]1st Downs & TDs[/u][/b]
    Sean Smith          40          6              46
    Cary Williams       39          6              45
    Patrick Robinson    36          9              45
    DeAngelo Hall       41          3              44
    Corey Webster       35          8              43
    Antoine Cason       38          5              43
    Dunta Robinson      38          4              42
    Quentin Jammer      34          8              42
    Josh Norman         38          2              40
    Cassius Vaughn      35          5              40
    Tramon Williams     38          2              40
    Per Snap Struggles

    However, as I said earlier, how can we really judge those guys given their opportunity to give up first downs are widely different to others? So instead of looking at who gave up the most, let’s look at who gave up the highest percentage relative to their coverage snaps (with a minimum of 300 snaps in coverage).

    Well, that man would be the Carolina Panthers’ Josh Norman. Life is rarely easy in the NFL, and when you’re a fifth-round rookie thrust into a starting lineup things can go wrong. Norman gave up a first down or touchdown on 8.95% of his coverage snaps, earning his -7.4 coverage grade for the year. Still, rookies will be rookies, and his career won’t be defined by this season.

    The man with the second-highest rating is a far more interesting case. With his numbers added up for the two teams he played for Aqib Talib, often tasked with manning up with a team’s best receiver, allowed a first down or touchdown on 8.75% of plays. He may be incredibly talented, but don’t be thinking he’s a shutdown cornerback when you go to pay him.
    Code:
         [B][U]Name[/U]        [U]Snaps[/U]  [U]1st Downs & TDs[/U]   [U]1st Downs & TDs by Snap[/U][/B]
    Josh Norman       447         40                  8.95%
    Aqib Talib        343         30                  8.75%
    Cassius Vaughn    472         40                  8.47%
    Joselio Hanson    332         27                  8.13%
    Nolan Carroll     415         33                  7.95%
    Cortez Allen      340         27                  7.94%
    Cary Williams     578         45                  7.79%
    Dunta Robinson    540         42                  7.78%
    Buster Skrine     451         35                  7.76%
    Josh Robinson     451         34                  7.54%
    Derek Cox         399         30                  7.52%
    Corey Webster     574         43                  7.49%
    Eric Wright       310         23                  7.42%
    Sean Smith        624         46                  7.37%
    A.J. Jefferson    357         26                  7.28%
    Patrick Robinson  619         45                  7.27%
    Jimmy Wilson      346         25                  7.23%
    Quentin Jammer    589         42                  7.13%
    DeAngelo Hall     625         44                  7.04%
    Keenan Lewis      531         37                  6.97%
    The Shutdown Crew

    Still, it’s not all bad. While some guys disappointed, others impressed, and none more so than the 49ers’ left cornerback in their nickel package, Chris Culliver. He gave up a first down or touchdown on only 3.45% of his snaps in coverage, a staggeringly low amount when you consider that the next lowest score is that of Leon Hall, with 3.75%.
    Code:
         [B][U]Name[/U]        [U]Snaps[/U]  [U]1st Downs & TDs[/U]   [U]1st Downs & TDs by Snap[/U][/B]
    Chris Culliver    493          17                 3.45%
    Leon Hall         507          19                 3.75%
    Sam Shields       342          14                 4.09%
    Prince Amukamara  434          18                 4.15%
    Casey Hayward     433          18                 4.16%
    Champ Bailey      586          25                 4.27%
    Adam Jones        414          18                 4.35%
    [COLOR="SeaGreen"][B]Antonio Cromartie 527          23                 4.36%[/B][/COLOR]
    Kareem Jackson    635          28                 4.41%
    Alterraun Verner  579          26                 4.49%
    Robert McClain    379          18                 4.75%
    Chris Houston     541          26                 4.81%
    Richard Sherman   590          29                 4.92%
    Brandon Browner   446          22                 4.93%
    Josh Wilson       658          33                 5.02%
    Brandon Flowers   436          22                 5.05%
    Chris Harris Jr.  493          25                 5.07%
    Antoine Winfield  609          31                 5.09%
    [COLOR="SeaGreen"][B]Kyle Wilson       511          27                 5.28%[/B][/COLOR]
    Asante Samuel     472          25                 5.30%
    Sometimes it’s not just about the yards you give up, but the impact of those yards. Do they move the chains or don’t they? There’s a big difference between allowing a 9-yard completion on 3rd-and-10, or giving up a 3-yard completion on 4th-and-2. So looking into who’s giving up touchdowns and first downs is a real indicator of which cornerbacks are truly shutdown.

    Stay tuned for more stats like this as the PFF Signature Stat area continues to grow.
    ----------

    I just found it interesting that both Cromartie & Wilson were in the top-20 in the league based on this metric; especially for how much hate Wilson gets (on this board)

    Also found it interesting that Patrick Peterson wasn't on the "shutdown list"

    Obviously no stat is perfect, just thought this article could create some good discussion about the state of the CBs on the Jets with all the Revis speculation out there (please don't turn this into another Revis thread)
     
    #1 dwalsh, Jan 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  2. MParty7441

    MParty7441 Well-Known Member

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    Snaps are misleading, how about the amount of times the ball was thrown their way?
     
  3. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Rex Ryan is a great defensive coach.
     
  4. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Michael Crabtree used to rip Patrick Peterson a new one each time they played. Kyle Wilson lucked out a lot. I remember times where he should of been beat for TDs, but the QB didn't connect with the WR. Still shocked to see Wilson there though. Maybe he's not as bad as we think?
     
  5. NFL

    NFL Active Member

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    I think that a better stat would be how many times they were targeted and completed in those targets. Also QBR when throwing their way.

    Looks good though, I always knew that Kyle wasn't as bad as people made him out to be, but I didn't know he did that bad.

    To the guy who said that Kyle got lucky, I only remember that in the SF game where Manningham beat him 2 or 3 times, don't really remember any other time that he got lucky.
     
  6. PennyRoyal10

    PennyRoyal10 Well-Known Member

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    I contend if the Jets had LB's that could cover the middle of the field and KW became the target of offensive game planning he would've been torched on a regular basis.

    My dream as a FA he goes to an AFC East team...
     
  7. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    My favorite was when Kyle Wilson would be absolutely torched but the QB would overthrow the ball and he'd celebrate like he did something good. Dunce.
     
  8. PaPZ187

    PaPZ187 Member

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    Only problem with that is how can you take into account a DB blanketing a WR, the QB noticing and doesn't throw his way because the DB has great coverage?

    Finding statistics to judge a DBs real impact on a game is no easy task.......but Pro Football Focus does as good a job as anyone IMO.

    Sent from my LG-P999
     
  9. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    he's not. players are rarely as bad as they are mde out to be on this board.

    gholston aside
     
  10. b.reyes16

    b.reyes16 Well-Known Member

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    I know 25 other teams would love to have kyle wilson. He is truly not half as bad as some think. I believe he is a much better nickel corner than anything, but a very solid corner none the less. I really hope aaron berry can live up to his talent and takeover the outside spot so wilson can move back inside. Very us much more natural outside corner. Of course, this us if revis is traded.
     
  11. PuMa

    PuMa Banned

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    I actually believe if we wanted we could play Kyle Wilson at FS.. Won't be a hard hitter but he plays zone pretty well compared to most CB's
     
  12. wildaces

    wildaces Banned

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    I would be interested to the comparisons of each year since Rex got there.
     
  13. Ted

    Ted Member

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    Side note: I grew up in East Lansing. What brings you here from there?
     
  14. Ted

    Ted Member

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    Teams ran the ball far more often against the Jets then passing it. If the stat was targeted you would get a much more accurate depiction.

    Sean Smith sits at the top not only because of his inconsistent coverage but teams threw the ball much more against Miami then running it.
     
  15. jetsclaps

    jetsclaps Well-Known Member

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    To the casual observer he got torched but he's bumping the receiver and throwing off the timing of the route. If he was only a little bit faster he'd be truly great.
     
  16. NFL

    NFL Active Member

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    Teams ran the ball a lot, but Jets still allowed the second best completion ratio on throws. So they did do pretty good.

    And when your bad in your coverages teams are gonna throw on you, no matter how good your run D is. If teams just didn't want to run on the Phins, why only throw on Sean Smith? Why not on Nolan Carroll.
     
  17. JetFanInPA

    JetFanInPA Well-Known Member

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    This is what I've been thinking. I wonder how well he would project...
     
  18. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how the stat analysis in question here would score a play like that. Do they credit the Cb when the opposing Qb makes an unforced error on his throw, or not?

    And like you I found Wilson's behavior in such circumstances embarrassing as a Jet fan.
     
  19. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. The Chiefs last year had a woeful 8 ypa against them, yet their pass D was targeted less than any other team's. Why? Because they were almost always behind and their run D was bad.
     
  20. Lon Chaney

    Lon Chaney Well-Known Member

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    I think just the opposite. I always felt that he was pretty awful covering the slot.
     

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