That fact in the newpaper may be one of the more stupider ones I've seen. You need to drive in the tying AND winning run to be clutch? wtf?
Actually, there are very few non yankees fans that would say everyone on the yankees sucks. In fact, last year, a good portion of the fans defending arod after his bad postseason were mets fans and most of the fans calling for his head were yankees fans.
If you guys want to argue why don't one of you metfans go and get some stats on all current MLB player's clutch number's, to see who is more clutch.... And alot of the times the yankees are in the lead past the 8th inning that's why jeter doesn't need to drive in runs, i know he could if he had too, this is where mariano's stats come in after the 8th inning... Always comes in with the lead and gets the job done. So tell me why does jeter has to drive in runs when we have the lead most of the time past the 8th inning? People might say insurance, but its mariano. So piss off metfans.
I know you did attic face... But the recent argument was jeter being clutch after the 8th inning... And i responded ^look.
You started this whole thread so we could argue over his value and "clutchness" and now you want to change it into a dj loving only thread? And as for some clutch numbers, I'll refer you to hardballtimes.com's clutch factor statistic which gives Jeter a -5.9 for the 04 season and a stunning -10.3 for the 05 season.
If you honestly believe that Derek Jeter is not a clutch player because he hasn't had many hits where he knocked in the tying and winning runs, you just really aren't very bright. Aside from the obvious flaws with this theory, keep in mind that Jeter hits at the top of the order and starts more rallies than he finishes.
:lol: :rofl: Jeter is a bad clutch player because of his "clutch factor?" You're telling me that last season you'd rather have Scott Hatteberg (clutch factor of 8.5) at bat in game 7 of the world series representing your last out than Jeter? You can't measure plays like the Flip or the catch diving into the stands in a stat.
You're missing the point. No one's claiming that the admittedly flawed stat proves anything. The point is that out of all the stats that try to measure clutchness, I haven't seen one that puts him at anything other then below average. One would think that a player that is considered by most to be the clutchest player in the league would at least come in average in some of the stats.
See below for the 1st part. And no, I'm not saying that I'd rather have Hatteberg, I admit that all clutch stats are flawed. But they do measure some aspects of performance under pressure, so why does Jeter struggle in every stat? And no, you can't measure the flip (and I admit that it might be the greatest play I've ever seen) but plays such as that only have so much value because 1. there have been so few of them and 2. when a player plays as many games in the postseason as dj has, the law of averages suggests that a player is bound to make SOME great plays in the clutch. The mark of a clutch player isn't whether or not he has made great plays, it's whether the PERCENTAGE of the time he performes well in the clutch is higher then the percentage of the time he does well normally. And there's a way to measure the "dive" into the stands just like there's a way to measure any other routine play. And error is attributed to the player if he does not make the play :breakdance:
thats about the dumbest thing i have heard...his plays should count less bc he has more chances? a: thats called being a captain and getting your team to the playoffs every year, b: i guess i david wright fields a grounder we'll crown him the best ever since the mets will make the playoffs once in the next 5 years
David Ortiz, the person who I'd expect to you to name as the most clutch player in the league, had a pedestrian 4.2 clutch rating last season. Do you wanna know what that (combined with Jeter's rating) tells me: "Clutch Rating" is total bullshit.
Well, for starters, I don't think Ortiz is clutch. I think, like Jeter, he's been a fan favorite in a baseball crazy market. When the fans love a player and thus think he's better then his numbers show, the fans and media tend to call the player clutch or mr intangibles to make him look better then his numbers. And again, I'm not trying to claim that clutch rating proves Jeter is not clutch. I'm saying that if he really is clutch, at least one of the numerous stats on clutchness that have been posted over time would give him a positive grade. But they all have below average scores for him.
