Devils advocate - what would you do

After watching FS vs. Alabama tonight, I have to say if we gt the #2 pick it becomes very tempting to trade back and be able to grab one of Wilson, Jones, or Trask. Jones and Trask put on a real show tonight. Neither are very mobile - they're not really running QBs as seems to be the style, but they bth have great arms and are accurate, and don't get rattled.

Something to consider if we "lose" Lawrence.

 

better than staying at 2 and taking Fields

i have the other games recorded so I haven’t watched them yet, but I saw all I need to see on Fields. That’s a hard pass for me.

 

Young QB's are very hit and miss. The 1st guy taken is a bit more likely to hit than the next guy right behind him. That's because the NFL does a really good job of scouting these guys collectively. When one guy is clearly *the* guy there is a lot of group information behind that choice.

Most drafts it is not at all clear who *the* guy is. That's when you see the top pick fail as often as the guys behind him. That's when the 5th guy taken can easily be the best of the bunch.

Lawrence is clearly *the* guy in the 2021 draft. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is advocating for Fields being the better pick. If the Jets can get Lawrence naturally they need to do that.

If they can't get Lawrence then it is time to maximize the value out of the pick and trade down until they are set to pick a guy they think is very good plus get all the trade-down value they can in the process.

The Jets having Darnold under contract gives them a lot of flexibility in where they take a QB in the 1st round of the 2021 draft. That does not mean they can pass on Lawrence but they don't have to take any QB after him if they don't like the value involved. They can keep spinning the wheel and adding value until they get to the right combination of future value for the team. Darnold can start next year while their pick (Joe Douglas and the new HC's pick) gets ready to play.

 

I have a question, what do you think or anyone can chime in for that matter, are the top 5 must haves for a QB as building blocks?

Arm strength, quick release, mobility, agility, accuracy, composure, playing time...etc

 

Ability to see the field which is something that is VERY difficult to quantify although with AI and advanced virtual reality stuff today you can more easily process all this stuff.

Arm strength is important because if you see an opening and have limited time, you need a strong arm to get ther ball in there.

 

This is what I originally posted in "Boozer32's Off Season..." thread:

I agree that mobility is important, but I think having a big arm and being accurate are the most important traits. And by "big arm" I don't mean necessarily like Allen or Mahomes, but it needs to be in that realm. There are times when you have to be able zip that ball into a tight window and you need to have the velocity to do it. But strength without accuracy isn't good enough, that's where Allen struggles, and while Darnold's arm isn't nearly as strong as Allen's, his inaccuracy becomes an even bigger issue.

I do agree on the mental toughness part. In fact, if a QB has a sufficiently high level of this, it can almost make up for all other deficiencies. I can't think of a good current example, but going way back, two come to mind: Joe Kapp of the Vikings, and Billy Kilmer of the Redskins. Both had terrible arms - I could probably throw better lefthanded (I'm a righty) than they could with their right, and yet both took their teams to SBs and won a lot of games. And it just occurred to me that the reason I can't think of anyone currently like that is because they would never get a chance to play QB, even in high school or Pop Warner these days. But their drive to win was unsurpassed, and it enabled them to win. If you look at the best QBs today - starting with Brady - I think you'll see that same level of commitment to not accepting anything less than winning. I think that's what Belichick saw in Brady at Michigan, and it was proven out. I don't see this in Darnold. I did see this in Mahomes and Watson, and I hate to say it, but I see it in Allen. I haven't seen enough of Lawrence or Fields, but I do see it in Wilson.

Anyway, that's my take on this.

In watching the college games yesterday, what I saw was Lawrence, Jones, and Trask all displaying strong, accurate arms, and great mental toughness. Peyton Ramsey was good, but not in that group. Ian Book folded a bit. Fields just didn't rise to the occasion.

Since I've been banging the drum for Zach Wilson, I'd really like to see him play against that higher level of competition, but that isn't going to happen unfortunately. Still, from what I've seen I do think he has the mental toughness - he didn't quit against Coastal Carolina when it was clearly not going well.

So at this point I'd rate my favorite QB prospects like this:

1. Lawrence.


2A/B. Wilson, Jones
3. Trask

I place Trask behind the other two because he isn't as mobile. That said, playing in the NE maybe he doesn't have to be. He reminds me a little of Roethlisberger. Given the right team I think he might be pretty good as a pro.

I'd really like to see Lawrence and Jones go head to head. That would reveal a lot about who has the bigger "will to win" maybe, even though a lot of other factors come into play, like the talent and coaching around them. It's quite possible that the guy with the bigger "heart" actually loses. As of now though I'm still favoring Lawrence.

 

I basically agree with ColoradoContrails, but here's my post from that same thread:

Following are the attributes in order that I think are most important. The first three are where I think Sam is most lacking. In fairness to Sam, it could be that he does possess these traits, but they have been obfuscated by the incompetence of his HCs, OCs and QB Coaches with the Jets with the approach they have taken with him and perhaps the systems in which he has been forced to play perhaps don't fit what is natural for him. I think he is soft mentally and physically (seeing ghosts), doesn't process quickly (if at all), doesn't have great instincts, and isn't accurate. Whereas all QBs don't like being hit or sacked, they don't get scared like Sam did and start seeing ghosts. They get pissed and get in their OL faces, or they do something to slow down the rush.I think he works hard, but maybe doesn't work smart, and he isn't really a leader. I know that he switched from LB to QB in high school, so he got a late start at QB, but unless he had no proper coaching either in high school or college, it's very difficult for me to understand how his fundamentals could be so bad, especially after he has supposedly worked hard with Jordan Palmer on them the last three years. How can his footwork be so bad, he not know to throw the football away, and how can he not know to not try to force the ball into double or triple coverage?

Football IQ, mental processing ability, attitude - being able to read the Ds, having great instincts, can make quick, good decisions, poise, confidence, is aggressive and has the killer instinct.*
Leadership - includes work ethic, character, not being a prima donna*
Mental and physical toughness - being able to shrug off missed throws, interceptions, bad plays, sacks and hits.*
Being able to make all the throws accurately - arm strength, can fit the ball into tight windows, anticipation, being able to throw receivers open
Mobility - can avoid the rush, can get yardage with this legs.

Brady has the first three in spades, and also has the 4th. Making quick decisions and getting the ball out quickly helps reduce the negative of his lack of mobility. Rodgers possess all of these qualities in spades. I think Brees, Wilson, Jackson, Allen, Mayfield and the other better QBs have most of them to some degree.

 

Someone compiled those grades or created them. Whoever that person was, is a moron imo and doesn't know what he's looking at when it comes to QBs.

 

Any scout that had Mahomes rated that low should be looking for a new career. Scouts make horrible judgments in the NFL every year, as do a number of GMs. I didn't say that I was an expert, but I've been more right than some of those idiots in the NFL. That list of QB rankings is laughable. If you can't see that, then you're the one with the problem.

 

And they're all blind and stupid because they dismissed him out of hand as an Air Raid QB! They couldn't see his amazing arm talent, accuracy, poise. Most scouts are former football players and football players are not the sharpest pencils in the box.

 

When Brady was younger the combination of pocket presence and quick feet let him sidestep a ton of potential sacks.

I would say when he was in his late 20's he might well have been the best all time at staying in the pocket, evading the rush and making the throw he needed too, often a well-disguised throwaway that would have been intentional grounding on 90% of the other QB's in the NFL.

Mobility, no. Elusiveness in the pocket, as high as any QB in NFL history.

For a number of seasons the only way to sack Brady was right up the middle - a feat that Shaun Ellis managed twice in the Jets playoff win against the Pats in 2010.