What if Chris Long slides down to the 6th spot? What then? I don't know about the End part but I always thought that he was more of a 4-3 Tackle until guys like Mike Mayock started saying that his best position may very be NT in a 3-4. I'm with you on that brother. In all likelihood, Ellis may not make it to the 6th spot anyway. But what if we pick Ellis in the 1st and have someone like Groves or Harvey available in the 2nd, whould that change your perception?
That would be a nice 1-2 punch in the first two rounds. I guess the question becomes whether Ellis is that much better than any NT they can get in a later round, or is Gholston that much better than any other DE/OLB that they can get in a later round. I think they should go for whichever position has the biggest dropoff in talent.
I think Gholston is the safe "No brainer" type selection at this point. Let's keep in mind acouple of things though... 1. Free Agency- If we sign a guy like Terrell Suggs(Pure speculation of course). Suddenly we have 2 capable pass rushers manning the OLB spots w/ BT and Suggs, who would also have hefty contracts. You can make the arguement that you can never have too many pass rushers..but when you have as many needs as we do...you may have to think twice about using a high pick and eating up that much cap room on basically a luxury/depth selection. On the flip side, say we sign a guy like Haynesworth to play DE, D rob also gets moved to DE and Pouha goes to NT. Some may make the same arguement as written above, but the reality is, 34 d linemen just dont make the same kind of money that pass rushers do, and frankly a healthy rotation is sorely needed within the corps. Therefore drafting another Dlinemen would still be feasible. 2. From reading things around the web, Mayock is not the only one who feels Ellis's best position is 3-4 NT. I myself have not seen enough film on him to make any proclamations, but he does appear to have the size/base to grow into the position...and if he truly is capable, his ability to be stout in the middle combined w/ his quickness/athleticism, would be a scary, scary thing for oppositions. We will need to take a long, hard look at Ellis. If he's an elite Nose tackle prospect...and he's there at 6, we may have no choice but to pull the trigger. Those types dont come along everyday. gholston may have the ability to be the next merriman, but at the same time...every year there are 3-4 OLB prospects. Elite Nt prospects come along once every 5 years. Many things to consider w/ this debate.
Ellis would be the smartest choice in the draft. Especially if we hit F/A with intention of gaining a pure pass rushing threat. Then hit the draft in hopes of landing, Ellis. This would be the absolute best possible scenario. Ellis would not be a better 4-3 tackle. He is much more valuable as a 3-4 NT. Dorsey will get the looks from the 4-3 schemes because he is that type of tackle. I dont know why people keep insisting that Ellis would be best suited for 4-3, even DE. This leads me to believe that you have not watched this guy play at all in college. If he put on a little more weight, he will have the true potential to be one of the elite NT's in this league. He will have a way more superior career then, Gholston.
I only say Gholston if the top 5 remains as it is, with both Chris Long and Darren Mcfadden going before us. If Long falls to us, I think he has to be our guy over Gholston, and if Mcfadden is there, we best be trading down for a monster supply of picks, because if we stay pat, we dont take Mcfadden and then New England takes him, that right there is probably the worst thing that could come of the draft. I am not high on either Gholston or Mcfadden, but I would rather the Pats have Gholston than DMC. The one guy at the top of this draft I actually think would do us good is Chris Long but that is my opinion.
He is a similar prospect to Dewayne Robertson when he was coming out, and he hasn't faired very well at NT, although Ellis is better against the run, I'd rather not take a chance.
Man, that sounds way too similar to the arguments for Brick. No that I think he is a bad player, but he has not even grown into his uniform.
What if somebody said. "Gholston is NOT a safe pick" Anyway, I said he was a safer pick than Ellis at NT.
Purely a speculation on my part but it seems like it would be easier to grab an edge rusher in the 2nd Round (Groves or Harvey may very well still be there when we pick) than finding an impact NT (picking Red Bryant at our spot is too much of a reach). Makes more sense to me to pick Ellis than Gholston in the 1st round if the statement above is true.
If Maycock says it - its a solid analysis in my mind. I've read it a few other places as well. I trust our FO to look at him and make the right call. If it isn't the case - well whoever falls to 6(given that Atl goes QB) will be a pretty nice player for us.
If Gholston is Gone or even if they decide to pick him instead i wouldnt mind Ellis... The kids a beast and he might be a little too small for NT agreed but i think he's good size to play DE yea he's only six foot one but he is big wide and strong at 308 Pounds and he plays ten times tougher then DRob ever did so i dont care for the comparision comments.. Cant wait for the draft im too eager lol.
I think the best part of Ellis rising into a legit top 5 prospect is it opens the door a little bit of the possiblity of DMac falling into the Jets laps. I do think Ellis can turn into a pretty good NT but do we really want to take another player in the top 10 that need to grow in order to reach his potential? Right now my draft board would look like.. McFadden Gholston C. LOng
Mock Drafts have Gholston going ahywhere from 4 with the Raiders somewhere between 12 and 15. Ellis is going up everyones draft board based on his Senior Bowl Week. Why is no one talking about Derrick Harvey - Florida? OK he is not a physical specimen like Gholston, but last I checked who cares what the guy looks like with his shirt off - I want the guy to make plays... All experts have Harvey as a definite pass rushing OLB in the NFL, with the athleticism to be effective in the limited coverage assignments he will have to play...The second part there is key. I've yet to hear or read that Gholston has the athleticism to handle coverage assignments. He might be able to...., but please show me where someone says he can. There are mocks out there that say that definitively about Harvey... Here are stats comparing the '06 and '07 seasons..... Gholston: 6'4" 254 lbs. 4.75 in the 40 Harvey: 6"4" 262 lbs 4.75 in the 40 Gholston: "06 season 49 tackles / 15 tackles behind the LOS / 8.5 Sacks Harvey: '06 season 35 tackles / 13 tackles behind the LOS / 7 sacks Gholston '07 Season 37 tackles / 15 tackles behiind the LOS / 14 sacks Harvey: '07 Season 49 tackles / 17 tackles behind LOS / 8.5 sacks Admittedly Gholston had a better sack total this year...but he doesn't play in the SEC - arguably the most talented conference in the NCAA. Putting the stats next to each other there is little difference. I hope everyone is not jumping on the Gholston band wagon because he is a physical specimen. Harvey, based on the comparable stats could be and should be just as good a ball player. Plus reading his bio on the Florida web-site gives every indication he is a hell of a good kid.... So let's not all jump on the front office if the pick at #6 - is someone else other than Gholston or Ellis....
But I've also seen it mentioned that Chris Long is undersized for a 3-4 DE. I would actually be happy with either Chris Long, Gholston, or Ellis. I don't think McFadden will be there.
No argument there about his not being a 3-4 DE, but Chris Long will w/out fail be a OLB in any 3-4 defense....
I think Gholston is a hot name amongst Jets fans (and everyone else) because he's shown his versatility at the college level. As well as being a physical specimen...he handles a DE/OLB role in the Ohio State D already...and while he's not great at dropping back in coverage...he's done it and hasn't looked retarded. I also think his first step and general explosiveness is second only to Groves' in this draft. Harvey on the other hand plays with his hands down at all times, and is excellent at keeping himself low to beat his blocker. He plays exactly like you want a 4-3 end to play. Combine is going to be huge for Harvey. Right now he interests me...but I'm not sure his hips are fluid enough to handle the DE/OLB position. How he performs in LB drills will be huge for his stock.
Well said....and I agree on all fronts. See I have this image of Jets fans kicking their dogs and acting like my 2 year old throwing a fit come draft day if/when the name Gholston is not called by the commissoner. Those always seem to be the fools that get their faces thrown on ESPN and are a poor representation of a Jets fan. My original post was more to bring to light the name Derrick Harvey and to enlighten that there are more players in the 1st round, not named Gholston or Ellis, that could help the Jets. Just to add I do recall seeing Harvey play some OLB or at least standing up - strictly rushing the passer. How many sacks or tackles for a loss he got form that position I could not tell you. But as you mention he intrigues me and I'll be watching him and listening to Mayock talk about him coome the combines.
