It's not even a debate. Curtis' # 28 will be retired and Wayne's 80 will not be. Wayne was a GOOD player, he doesn't deserve the honor of his # being retired.
There's no question Freeman was the more physically gifted player but he didn't have Curtis' will. If he did he'd be in the Hall of Fame today.
I gotta give to the flashlight. When we were having the worste years he was the only bright spot. Half of Martin's best years were in New England but Chrebet put his heart into the Jets from the begining to the end.
I've been advocating the retirement of Chrebet's jersey for a long time and will continue to do so. But between the two, Martin has done more.
This was exactly my point. If the poll read "Is it possible for someone to be a fan of both", I would have put yes. The only reason I put no is because it asked, "Is is possible for YOU to be a fan of both"...big difference.
The 144 and 97 numbers are correct. I think the 192 should be 181. It is a question of whether he missed 37 or 48 games. missed games, year-by-year- 1981- 5 1982- 0 1983- 7 1984- 4 1985- 2 1986- 4 1987- *3 1988- 0 1989- 5 1990- 0 1991- 3 1992- 4 *He played 9 games in 1987. He lost four games due to the strike. Hence, I have him actually being physically unable to play for 3 games.
I see it pretty much the same way. Personally I thought Toon behind Namath was the second most talented player and also a blast to watch in the teams history. Where both Martin and Chrebet fall short for me is they played on some excellent football teams and they didn't make the team great or even better. Big contributors not game changers. The 98 team was a really good all around team that was elevated to near great by the play of Testeverde. You could almost argue that if we switch running backs with Denver that year that none HOF running back makes us great and carries us to a SB and Denver with Martin a HOF back falls short. Martin was also incredibly expensive for the Jets and while he played consistently well for a long time cost us the chance to sign a game changer that might have put us over the top in one of the key years instead of having to unload a boatload of talent. My biggest reason for Martin not getting his number retired by the Jets is his HOF entry is based on longevity not dominance while a Jet. Without his NE years this guy isn't even in the conversation for the HOF. Hill, Klecko, Sauer, Snell, Philbin all deserve their Jets numbers retired ahead of either Martin or Chrebet. Healthy, McNeal was a game changer, great player.
I love Curtis, but there was nothing like watching Chrebet running onto the field on 3rd down - we all knew where the ball was going, and we all knew the punishment Wayne would take to catch it.
We were only awful for 2 years w/ Chrebet before Parcells got here and Curtis played 8 of 11 years here not half of his career. Which is why before he got his new deal in '02(I think it was '01) the rumblings were he wanted to go play for the Giants to end his career, to end hios career playing for the team he rooted for groeing up. Curtis had his ups and downs in postseason BUT we never had a dominat run blocking line like TD had in Denver and in that Championship game Curtis was constantly being hit in the backfield. There's not much a RB can do in that situation.
Winston, saying that Martin never made a good team better is pretty bogus... Do you really think the 1998 Jets would have gone 12-4 and made the AFCC without Martin? Do you really think Vinny Testaverde would have had a 29 TD, 7 INT season without a running game that kept 8-9 players in the box on each and every play? Do you really think Keyshawn Johnson would have been nearly as effective as he was without the benefit of one-on-one matchups frequently brought about by the need by the defense to stuff a S in the box? Curtis didn't have a great YPC in '98, but he was a workhorse, and his mere presence made a lot of players who were very mediocre over the course of their careers into superstars for one season... He ran the ball nearly 370 times. The 1998 Jets were a very, very, very good team, but a team does not go 12-4, and skill players like Testaverde & Johnson do not shine without someone there to open things up for them. Oh, and Curtis was our 3rd leading receiver in '98 too... Combined rushing and receiving he had over 400 touches. That, along with a few defensive factors, is the reason this team was a Super Bowl contender.
You mean Curtis Martin and his 3.5 YPC on 369 carries. Curtis was mediocre at best in 98, one of his worst seasons. Yes I do think running back by committe on that team does every bit as good as Curtis did on that team. Adrian Murrell averaged 3.9 YPC on the 97 team which wasn't nearly as good as the 98 team. Keyshawn in year 2 with Neil ODonnel caught 70 balls. Vinny carried that offense not Curtis.
^ You ignored my entire argument that Martin, with over 400 touches, was the reason mediocre players like Vinny and Key played like superstars in 1998. Yes, his YPC was low, but he consistently picked up 3-5 yards, and made sure that the defense had to account for him, thus opening up the passing game. A RBC does not have that effect, because the consistency is not there. Curtis' ability to be a workhorse, and take the load each and every game was the reason why Vinny Testaverde was a top-flight QB in 1998. There is a reason why Vinny never played at that level previous to having Curtis Martin in the backfield, and never touched that level after...
Vinny may have been a career mediocre QB, but he had lights out, game changing ability and he showed it a couple of times in his career including 96 when he went to the pro bowl and had 33 TD's. He was outright great in 98 by far the best single player on that team. To call Keyshawn mediocre is a joke. The guy was a top 10 WR in this league when he played for the Jets. The Jets with that staff and Adrian Murrell could have lost to Denver in the AFC Finals that year. The 99 season went down the drain because of Vinny going down. Curtis played on some great teams with the Jets but the closest he every came with the Jets was with Vinny having a great year. The fact is NE didn't miss a beat lossing Curtis Martin and won a SB with running back by committee a couple of years after we scooped him to the Jets.
Vinny wasn't great in 1996. he had 33 TDs but he also 19 INts and led his team to just 4 wins. Beamen hits it on the head w/ the importance of Curtis. Defenses had to be concerned w/ him and he opened up everything around him. he was playing hurt that yera, he didn't have his usual burst so he didn't average 4.2 like he did the year before or 4.0 like he would a year later w/ Ray Lucas at QB for much of the year. '99 went down b/c Parcells didn't have a backup plan, we went 6-3 w/ Ray Lucas as our QB. If he would have gone to him earlier we would have made the postseason. We also lost alot more than just Vinny to injury. NE didn't miss a beta w/o Curtis? They went from 10 wins in '96 to 5 in '00. Then some all time great QB stepped on the field and it didn't matter as much but NE missed him for a few years. Vinny was our best player in '98 but Curtis was vitally important and I agree Key was a top 10(maybe top 5 in '98 & 99) WR w/ us. Vinny played great even in the title game but didn't have help around him. We lost the title game up front, our OL was dominated and Jim Brown wouldn't have done anything running behind our OL that day. I doubt we would have been 12-4 w/ Adrian Murrell, Murrell was a decent player but D's weren't worried about him the way they were Curtis and it would have made it harder to pass the ball.
It's clear to me you never saw Jim Brown play football. How many SB did that great QB on NE have after Weiss left the Pats? VInny was a great talent and in 98 he was surounded by a great staff.
Yes he did. He also put together one hell of a staff on that team including a great OC and QB coach and effectively Vinny had two QB coaches on that team. Compare that Offensive staff to the one the Jets have to bring Clemens up to speed and you can see why Chad has a huge leg up. Hopefully Callahan will bring a ton to the table.
