I don't understand. If that's the case, then you're saying Cowher had it because he came along and made them a successful franchise. At the same time, you start threads asking what's so special about Cowher. I don't get it.
I think people forget the mediocre Chuck Noll years. Bill Cowher took over and brought the Steelers to, what, SIX Conference Championship games? If I want to find fair criticism, it would be that he should have more Superbowl rings. If I want to find fair criticism, I would link the rise of the Steelers to the decline of the Bengals and Browns. But, there's no real argument that Chuck Noll's final decade didn't bear the same success as his first.
Noll had been coaching for 15 years in a row before his teams started declining. You know how many coaches coach for 15 years in a row in this league? How much passion for Sundays is there really gonna be after that long? It's not like he magically lost his coaching ability or anything. You'd probably be less confused if you took the time to listen/read what I'm saying instead of looking for something in it to contradict.
DWare, you know I love your posts usually, but I don't think it's a dumb move. We absolutely collapsed down the stretch, and firing the head coach is far from unreasonable. You say we might not get a better candidate than Mangini. Well, I would be more confident with Bill Cowher or Steve Spagnuolo right now probably, and maybe Marty Schottenheimer as well. There was no real reason given for the firing, that is true. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a reason. Whether it was Favre not seeing eye to eye, the team giving up on him down the stretch, Woody being impatient, or Tannenbaum simply noticing all his flaws, there was a reason they didn't tell us. We'll probably find out more in the next few weeks and months. Or maybe, just maybe, Tannenbaum decided that ANY coach whose team completely fell apart the way ours did would not be able to regain the team's confidence. To me, that's the most valid reason to argue for the firing of Mangini although there are several. I liked Eric, and I still think he'll be a good NFL coach, but most coaches whose teams collapse the way this one did do not bounce back the way they did. And those who do have much better job security than a guy in his third year who is coming off a 4-12 season and who has never won a playoff game. And if anyone else expressed similar thoughts, I only read page 1 so far, so forgive me if I repeat something
Coinciding with the retirement of a stable of Hall of Famers. Not to mention, in an age where there wasn't a salary cap, nor any such thing as free agency. So keeping talent in your own barn wasn't a big issue. Credit the personnel department in Pittsburgh for a good drafting during the Cowher years, but consistency was an easier trick in the Noll era.
I'm usually pretty hard on this organization, but firing this asshat was a good call. And Woody was just sounding humble when saying its a judgment call and he hopes it is right. Fuck has anyone here taken a marketing or PR class? What else would Woody say here? "Fuck that fat bastard he's fired"? I actually think Woody's made some good decisions in 2008 (I still stand by the BF trade at the time, and these FA's were productive. Mangini and co ruined our chances. Now its time for woody to really get his shit together and get us a top flight coach.
The roster doesn't lack talent but it also is highly over rated in its talent. Outside of Revis which players on our team are outright studs that blow you away when you see them play? This draft produced a pass catching TE who can't block and dropped a lot of passes and who looks like he might be a player? Aa CB who was replaced by Ty Law mid way through the season. In three drafts how many quality starters have we produced? D'Brick, Revis and maybe Harris? Mangold looked bad at the end of this year. Is there more potential sure but for a rebuilding team, where is the speed and the dynamic players? This is the D and the team that Mangini wanted. They were so sure they had a real competitive team they made the bold move for Favre. If Brady doesn't get hurt we are 3games back and 8 and 8. We have some nice players but this team isn't filled with studs on either side of the ball. We have terrible team speed and after Denver got through with us we did squat on both sides of the ball for 5 straight games. We have a foundation but there is a ton of work to be done. Mangini was fired because he put this team together and believed it was better than it was and than he proceeded to lose his charachter guys down the stretch.
I think you've nailed it. This would explain why Mangini would call for (or allow to be called for) a cockamamie 40-yard pass on 3rd and 1 when all you really want to do is get the first down. "Even though we've been successful today at running the ball, I think this team is so good we can pull this off and sneak it out there." This would explain the overconfidence exhibited in taking a FG on 4th and One at the 2-YL and settling for a lousy 3 points like the textboodk says you should... "It's obvious we can move the chains against this team any time we want, so this won't be the only time we're in the end zone today." He never counted on Favre throwing 9 of his 22 INTs in the last 5 games either. That was the killer.
The Rich Cotite teams had TREMENDOUS talent. We won 3 games in 2 years. A couple years later we're in the AFCC game.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but think you are underestimating the talent on this team. 5 out of 7 pro-bowlers deserved it, not to mention the very qualified 5 alternates. I feel that not unlike Herm, Mangini and staff completely mismanaged their players; Clowney is active for 1 game, Baker starts all year, Ratliff is inactive all year, a stud like Trusnik doesn't get a real chance until week 17?
Well yea...it's 3 years...in the Pats first 3 years under BB the only marquee player drafted by Belichick was Seymour. 3 years is a lot of time, but it's not *that* much time. It's still a really talented team thats only going to continue to stockpile more. We're not filled with studs, but we definitely have a few and we should only add more.
I'm going to repeat a point I've made before, the key thing with Mangini is that he wasn't going to get better because he was not self critical. He honestly believes the Pats way of doing things is a magic formula for success. He will not change, he just won't. Look at Shanahan, in his first stint as HC he wouldn't let the players sit on their helmets at practice and the players hated him for it. Later on he changed and got rid of BS rules like that. You have to clear the ground to plant new seed. That means you have to criticize your old way of doing things before you can change, the first step in change, clearing the old ground, is a step that Manginius will never take. He's not a bad fellow, I don't wish him poorly in life. And considering he got a $7M contract from the Jets he's not doing poorly. I'll save my sympathy for people who deserve it. And you know what, pay me $7M and I won't complain about getting the finger from half of NY cuz its worth it. Mangini came out okay.
