If we settle for having someone like Geno or make a trade for Hoyer, then I think we will be in an unofficial "rebuild." There's no way we make the playoffs with either of those guys. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
I can see it too. I bet Mac wouldn't mind scrapping the thing and setting up the future with money and draft picks, along with our younger players. I think he's very confident in his vision and his ability to evaluate talent. After the fiasco the previous year fans and Woody were desperate to win, and Mac put a good team together for Woody. But we need a youth/talent infusion with a foundation for the future. Do it. The sooner the better edit: and Woody's gotta stay out of the way, totally. No brainstorms from Woody, thank you.
Who would he trade besides Mo for picks? We don't have a ton of assets. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
I don't know. Clear the roster more or less of the old guys and not worry about this year per se. Forget about last year and trying to chase that. Rebuild.
The Jets can rebuild and still have a shot at 8 to 10 wins again. That's going to require some very adroit maneuvering with the current veterans and then getting lucky on people Like Mauldin IV, Marcus Williams and a few draftees. My expectations at this point for 2016 are 8-8. If the Jets come in at that level and are fielding a team that is building to be better I'll be more than ok with it. If they fall a bit short and are building to be better, well I don't like falling short of .500 but if we can see the growth potential, well that's livable. If the 8-8 is fueled by a bunch of over 30 vets and we aren't grooming the next window this year it will be depressing, below .500 will be very depressing in that situation.
I think we're already in a "rebuild." Unlike traditional rebuilds, Mac isn't dumping all the older vets and going with youth. He's trying to make and keep the team competitive and respectable while he's building the roster.
We're in a rebuild that stalled because the old talent evaluation team could not draft well and the second GM in that sequence didn't have the full confidence of management to make the necessary changes in that culture. We haven't drafted well in about a decade at this point. 2006 was the last draft that produced 4+ players that stuck around for more than 3 years and we had 10 picks that year. We actually may have been historically bad at drafting after the 1st and 2nd rounds in the period from 2007 to 2014, due both to misses and just not having picks available from year to year. I count zero quality starters for the Jets drafted after the 2nd round from 2007 to 2014. I count 6 quality starters drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds combined. That's less than 1 high impact player a year out of those 8 drafts and 2 of them were drafted 8 years ago in 2007.
Spot on... and it is what ive been saying for a while. Fans need to get that we are in the middle of a rebuild, and not in win now territory. The waters are a bit murky though... But that is what happens when you're owner signs off on a GMs 3 year rebuild plan but fires him 2 years into it. I know Idzik isnt popular, and I was ok with him leaving as well(because of his drafting), but him passing in free agency had a purpose. Reset the Cap, do a bit of tanking to get an impact draft pick, purge the team of some older guys, and then look to start building the team with young talent moving forward. We dont know how he would have spent 50 million and the #6 pick, but it was kind of a raw deal he didnt get to. but at the end of the day he couldnt scout or draft so probably for the better but here is the thing... in comes mac. and replacing a guy they just fired because they wanted to put an end to the rebuild is tricky. And there was pressure from the franchise to make some big splashes on older guys, which is how revis and cromartie came back. the marshall move was a great move value wise and he has produced like a stud. but it was still a small window move. As was retaining harris. So we end up in this Hybrid rebuild where we have a smart GM putting good value on guys, and looking for sustained success but also pushed the rebuild back a couple years by investing in older players. I have some faith in Mac though. I said last offseason when everyone was busy kneeling at his feet that his real test as a GM was this offseason, not his last one. and we need to judge him on his drafts and tough decisions not on how he spends a kings ransom... But I have faith in the guy. the tough decisions are here and he hasnt blinked. he put a value on snacks and let him walk. He put a value on fitz and hasnt caved. He tagged mo and has some options and dont doubt he would trade him once the value is there or sign him once the number comes down. to me that shows alot as a GM. i dont think he'd hesitate to cut brick if need be. he is adding depth to the roster with some of these signings at DL. depth is something this team has long lacked. hopefully we punt on fitz, trade for hoyer, cut or get a major paycut on brick, draft a LT, and either get mo to cave or move him for a day 1 pick to reinvest in other positions
I'm pissed about Beachum still... that was the key to the entire off-season right there. He would've allowed us to cut brick and breno and sign him for cheaper than brick, have new money for fitz and wilk.. or any of the other FA's Mac likes.
i think we can still cut brick and or breno. i liked beachum too, but he doesnt prevent us from making those cuts
If Idzik had done a better job in the draft, he'd still probably be here. He has only himself to blame for getting fired. Actually, Woody should have never hired Idzik, because he just didn't have the scouting/personnel background that the team needed. He had a little experience in that area, but not much. Most of his career was in administration. He had the right idea about building through the draft, but then couldn't execute that idea properly, and that's the critical piece. I do think we have some idea of how he would have spent the $50 million and how he'd have done with the draft. He'd have signed some players, but probably not gotten the talented players that Mac got and with less team-friendly deals. I don't there's any way he would have traded for Marshall or Fitz, or even taken Williams at #6. I think he would probably have reached for a WR, OL or pass rusher. I don't think he got a raw deal at all. He could have remained the GM for 10 more years and the team would have gotten worse instead of better. Woody didn't want to put an end to the rebuild. I don't know where you get that idea. He wouldn't have hired Mac if he did. I'm sure that Mac told Woody that the Scouting and Personnel Depts. had to be overhauled and the team had to be built through the draft if the team had any hopes of establishing and maintaining long-term stability and success. What pressure from the franchise to make big splashes? I don't recall any pressure on Mac from Woody. Of course, pressure goes along with the job, and one is judged by the moves that one makes and doesn't make in FA and the draft. The secondary was a disaster and the team's biggest need. Revis wanted to come home, he was available, he was popular with many fans, and signing him hurt the Pats. Cro had played pretty well for Bowles. Cro wanted to follow Bowles here, Cro wanted to play with Revis again and he wanted to play for the Jets again. I think that Bowles probably wanted Cro here. I don't think there was any pressure on Mac to make big splashes or sign older guys. Because he had to spend big money to get within league rules, that meant signing big name players, and that was going to make news. There's no way that could have been avoided. I don't understand what you mean about Marshall being a small window move. He was brought in to give the offense a play maker, to help whoever the QB was and to make the team more competitive. Yes, he was older and only likely to be here a couple of years, but that didn't mean that Mac thought the team was going to challenge within that two years, so the "window" talk makes no sense to me. That expression is usually reserved for when a team is going all in to try to win before their star core players (and that usually includes their starting QB) retire. Other than Decker, the Jets had a huge hole at WR. Getting Marshall was a brilliant move. IMO it doesn't matter if it was for one season or 10. He gave the team some instant credibility and respect. The rebuild wasn't pushed back because Mac signed some older players. IMO that's silly. The Jets have a limited number of draft picks. Just because one plays a young player doesn't mean he is going to develop or even has any real talent and potential to begin with. Unless one is intentionally tanking for draft position, there's nothing to be gained by playing young players who aren't any good and who don't have any potential. It's better to bring in veterans who can make the team more competitive, who can help establish a winning atmosphere, and who can mentor the younger players in the right mental approaches to the game, the right way to stay in shape, practice, study tape, etc. IMO, that's what Mac has done. He hasn't sat any young Jets with real potential in order to play older vets. He has left lineup decisions to Bowles.
This is what scares me about TB as our HC, it seems he favors vets and is not willing to grow the team with young players, take his lumps while the young players develope. I also fear that the Jets owner is so desperate to give the jet fans a winning team that he also won't allow the FO to field a young inexperienced team.
One thing that's worth remembering is that building a winning football team is not the same thing as building a winning baseball team. In football, the high rate of roster turnover makes it hard to execute a long term rebuilding plan, and a good coach and a good QB are worth more than an ascending roster.
You could be right, but we really don't have enough evidence to know one way or the other. Your second statement could very easily be the case, but even if it's not, few HCs would be allowed the luxury of having losing records their first 2-3 seasons. If they do, they likely won't be around for any more seasons, so it's a delicate balance. We also know how reactionary and impatient the Jets fan base is. Even if Woody gave Bowles that leeway and Bowles was willing to go with young players, I don't think that much of the fan base would, and we'd see billboards and planes again. To be honest I'm not worried about Bowles. I don't think he really held back any young players last season. Several have posited that Mauldin should have played more earlier, and perhaps he should have, but I know that OLB is one of the hardest positions to learn in the NFL. It takes a while for young players to develop in that position because of all the responsibilities. Bowles was also trying to change the culture here last season and wanted to establish a winning mentality. You don't do that when you're taking lumps and losing. What other young players do you think that Bowles sat last season in favor of a vet?
it doesn't but it prevents that huge hole that everyone if afraid of if we cut brick.. I honestly wouldn't be as worried because I feel brick is a liability at this point to our cap and production on offense .. it's getting kind of late in free agency now though I have to think Mac has a trade up his sleeve coming
Not particularly making a case for a young player last season, I was agreeing with Brad that an 8-8 season with a bunch of vets could be a cycle that the jets organization could perpetuate out of fear that the jet fan base could turn on them as you stated.
well, i'm not afraid of it. I'd prefer if his replacement was on the roster or drafted last year, but it is what it is. when you are rebuilding you cant fix everything at once. and if we take a hit at tackle for a year, i can live with that.
