Idk if both Bowles and Macc are on the chopping block but if I had to hedge my bet right now, I would bet that Bowles will not be the coach in 2018 and Macc will still be the GM. Like I've said before, if the QB's magically play well, or we magically win more than anticipated then the whole dynamic changes. But if we strictly view the moves made, the way Bowles reacted to those moves, it does not seem Macc and Bowles are tied at the hip.
I disagree. Other GM's passed on both of these players, and we would be destroying Macc if he took Ereck Flowers or Kevin White, who both would have filled a glaring need. Both would have been acceptable picks at the time. A good GM makes the right pick, even if it's the obvious one.
I"m upset with Mac, but I disagree that one cannot credit Mac for taking Williams or Adams. IMO Mac didn't have to take either. He could have reached out of need and taken another player. He could have traded down. If he coveted either player, he could have panicked and traded up, but he didn't. He stayed put and took the best player on the Jets board. Those picks may not have the panache of a brilliant pick in the 4th or 5th round, or even a higher round, but they were still great picks. How many GMs passed up on Williams although he was the consensus best player? How many GMs passed up on Adams, although again he was considered the top player?
You're certainly entitled to your opinion and it is not without merit, however both these picks were considered by EVERYONE to be no brainers...I find it hard to judge someone on the obvious . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If he doesn't deserve an extension, what sense does it make to give him one anyway? That's the typical Jets way of doing things imo. You most certainly can fire a HC in this situation. Sticking with a coach that is incompetent, that cannot or will not instill discipline will cause the rebuild to fail, and you risk wasting the draft picks that you've made in the previous draft or two. Sometimes, teams need to start over rather than continue down the wrong path. You're speaking in absolutes, and that's just not real life. Things aren't that black and white. One has to view each situation on its own merits (or lack thereof). If a lot of the young players don't develop this season, if the team continues to be undisciplined, look unprepared in games, and generally play in a sloppy fashion, not only can Bowles be fired, but he must, or this rebuild will be for naught. To say that we have to stick with him regardless is utter nonsense.
No offense taken. I totally agree that this situation reeks of Woody. Even if he isn't the culprit this time, he has been 99% of the time since he bought the team. Sorry to hear about your client. Sounds like a nightmare. I hope that he pays you well!! I think we can judge Bowles even better with a young team than a veteran team. With a veteran team, their experience and leadership can cover up many mistakes by the HC. With a younger team, that has no identity, that has no experienced leaders, I believe that we can see more clearly if and how the young players are developing and playing, how they handle situations. We can see their discipline or lack thereof. We can see if they are playing hard, smart and tough, or look unprepared and sloppy. While I agree that we need to see how the team fares this season before making a final decision, I think that many of us have a very strong opinion on how that is going to turn out. While Bowles appeared to do a pretty good job in 2015, it could just be that..."appearance." He may have ridden the coattails of being a new HC and Fitz having a career year. I believe that most of the time when there is a HC change with a team, that new HC enjoys a "bump" or immediate improvement for a year or two, then things level out, getting worse, or they continue to improve. Regardless of whether that's true or not, it's pretty indisputable that Bowles was awful last year. What's worse, a HC who does a much worse job in his 2nd season, or one who is basically the same, and the 2nd and 3rd season clearly demonstrate that the success of his first season was not due to him and his decisions/actions? Bowles has made it pretty clear that he is a "player's" coach, that he prefers veterans, and is not going to hold them accountable. He's going to be on the lax/slack side of things, and let them get away with a lot before he says/does anything. IMO that's a disaster waiting to happen with any team, but especially a young rebuilding team. I think that we will clearly be able to determine if the team looks prepared to play each and every game this season. We will see if young players are developing. We will see if Bowles is capable of making adjustments. Not every adjustment will work, but the evidence should be clear that Bowles and the Jets are trying something different. We will see if Bowles' game and clock management improve. We will see if he loses the locker room and if the players play as a team or as a bunch of individuals as last season. We'll see if the team plays with any passion and fire or if it reflects its HC's persona.
Very weird situation. Generally, I would think they both have this year and next. Maccagnan clearly had the green light to tear the roster down (a move I liked). Clearly taking late round QB's has failed miserably. At least we are taking a shot on an elite prospect (hopefully). It will be very difficult to evaluate Bowles job coaching this year. He has one of the least talented teams in the last 10 years lol. I know he'll get the typical "bad coach" buzz phrases. But at the end of the day, if this team gets 4 wins, he should probably win coach of the year lol. Having said all that, do we as fans really want this team the usher in a new QB prospect with this Front Office? Knowing that next year they could be lame ducks, if they arent this season. I'm not sure which way the Jets are headed. But I dont think one of these guys should stick around. They either both stay or they both go IMO.
Bowels and Macc were forced on each other by the Wolf/Casserly team. I think Macc should have the opportunity to pick his own coach.
With your logic Bowles should have been fired last year n the rebuild starts with a new coach. That I agree with. If we fire him next year we have a whole new system n start over. It's the jet way. I can't stand Bowles ... understood. Just saying what's the right football decision
You assume that if Bowles was fired that the offensive & defensive systems would change. That would be a mistake, but one can change HCs without changing systems. Other teams have done it. The Jets owners just have stupidly never given any consideration to that. If Bowles is fired and Mac retained, hopefully, he would have sense enough to hire a HC who would keep the same offensive system in place. Mac could even push for the new HC to keep Morton on as OC, or that guy might want to keep Morton if the Jets' offense shows some real fire and promise this season. Since the D switches between fronts, making a switch to 4-3 would not be that big a deal, and could even wind up being beneficial in the long run. Also, with the way Woody does things, he could fire Bowles and mandate that the new HC had to retain Morton, Green and some of the other positions coaches.
I disagree on about all accounts. The only thing I agree with is your paragraph beginning with "Generally, I would think". I don't think it will be difficult to evaluate Bowles at all. In fact, I think it will be much easier than it would be with a more veteran team. Veterans can make a coach look better due to their experience and leadership/mentor factor. With few veterans, it's all on the HC and his CS. If the team is unprepared, plays sloppily, and is generally undisciplined, then it's clear that it's on the HC. Last season was unusual. One doesn't usually see top-level veterans dogging it the way they did. The fact that they did was a clear indictment not only of them, but even moreso of Bowles. It showed that they had neither any respect for Bowles nor any fear of him. Conversely, if they hadn't dogged it, the team would have looked better and perhaps won more games. Bowles will have young, energetic players who are playing for jobs and their careers. He will have the clear opportunity to mold this team and shape an identity. It will be glaringly apparent whether he succeeds or fails, how the team plays, and if he has made any progress or shown any signs of growth in his own areas of weakness. I think that Bowles and the team has to show clear progress this season or he must go. Mac is a different story. Why should Mac be fired if Bowles is? Mac, while not perfect, has done a much better job than Bowles, and if his draft picks really start having an impact this season, then his job should be safe. He didn't hire Bowles. He was thrust into an awkward situation in being an equal with the HC, and working for a doofus owner. Even if his draft picks don't have a huge impact, but they show flashes and give evidence that they are learning, growing, developing, then Mac deserves to stay and hire the next HC.
That is what I see happening. This tank/rebuild will not work and what usually happens in Jets land? They start the process all over again. So we will lose 2 years of whatever they are trying to do here, new GM/coach comes in and they spend heavily on free agents and the team sees some success. Either makes the playoffs or barely miss it. The fanbase is thrilled next year the team is flat or terrible. It's what happened with Herm, Mangini, Rex.
Of course, with Woody, anything is possible, but I can't see even Woody being that stupid. If Bowles doesn't show signs of learning/improvement this year and he's fired, I think Mac will be here to hire the new HC and the rebuild will continue. In that scenario, I can't see the Jets going all in too early. They will have a bunch of cap space next year, and while the Jets may sign a young star or two, overall, I think Mac will sign good, young players that will fit in and will improve depth and perhaps fill a couple of holes. Even if Mac wasn't retained for some reason, the new GM would have to be pretty stupid if the rebuild had failed, to go all in to try to make the playoffs. If the rebuild failed, how would the Jets have the talent to even come close to the playoffs? That's not realistic at all. If the rebuild fails, it would mean that neither Hack nor Petty developed and the Jets failed to get a FQB in the 2018 draft. The new GM would have to continue the rebuild and seek to do it better or "right." He would have to hire a HC who could teach and develop a young team and the GM would have to find that FQB. Until he had found that FQB, he'd have to be a moron to think that the Jets could win continuing to use JAG QBs.
The main problem with firing Bowles now is no coach worth his salt would want to come to a team that is not spending money and has an unproven roster. Sure we could roll the dice on another up and coming coordinator who would be willing to walk into a situation like this, but there is no garentee he will be any better than Bowles . Might as well use Bowles to be the talent evaluator for this season and maybe next one . If we are still wanting to move on then we will have filtered out the duds from the roster and possess a few drafts worth of players on their first contract and the extra cap space for FAs to lure a more accomplished coach that will actually be chosen by the GM .
NCJetsfan, I never heard of a new coach coming from the outside that retains both coordinators and keep the same systems. To say other wise is ridiculous. If and when Bowles gets fired we get a new defensive system since its his system. Its not even debatable. And only if the O coordinator does a great job, how that can happen with our talent I have no idea, all these young kids need to learn a new system and for some it will be there 3rd offensive system in 3 years. that's great planning right there.
I agree, but at the same time I disagree with some of your comments. Him taking those players doesn't really tell us how good of a drafter he really is. For the most part it, those teams that passed on those players it bit them in the ass. The only one you can argue this is for the Redskins taking Brandon Schreff. Kevin White / Ereck Flowers weren't that good of prospects to begin with. Jags selected Dante Fowler instead of Leonard Williams and Fowler hasn't done much at all. At the end of the day, a GM makes his $$$ in the 2nd to 4th rounds. How good do you think he's done 3 drafts in?
At the end of the day, a GM makes his $$$ in the 2nd to 4th rounds. How good do you think he's done 3 drafts in? I would say awful in the 2nd round. I would say a B- on rounds 3&4. Two starters in Mauldin and Jenkins and a potential starter in Burris from the 4th. I expect Mauldin and Jenkins to up their game with Kevin Greene coaching them and Burris is getting starter minutes in OTA.
Mauldin is definitely a big time work in progress, though I don't have much faith in him. I REALLY like Jenkins. Burris is getting first team reps. His 2nd round record so far has been putrid. Mac has been able to find a few gems late, but still require major progress [Shell, Deon Simon]. No real steals in terms of instant impact players in the later drafts like a Jordan Howard from the Bears for example. Burris is getting first team reps, we shall see, but the 2nd rounds have been just as bad for Mac then all the previous GMs. I honestly, give him a C 3 drafts in, obviously hard to judge right away, but we missed out on some good players I think.
