all you have shown is that in that time Brady was better immediately than Bledsoe had been during that period of time. and blowing a 14 point lead against one of the great offense of all time is hardly an indictment of the defense. where was the offense during that time to keep the Rams off the field? you have to conveniently ignore that to come to your conclusion. great, Brady engineered a tremendous 50 yard drive to kick a FG. other than the timing of it, there was nothing about that drive that says he was brilliant as a whole that season.
Why would I make that argument for Brady when you ignore all the times Manning is under intense pressure (99 Ten, 00 Mia, 05 Pit). You just claim they are excuses but they part of the games. Vanderjagt was not known as a choker until that 2005 Pitt FG miss. Brady was bailed out in the tuck rule game by one of the toughest FGs ever made. So now your newest complaint against Manning is he played a 5 and a 6 seed. It's always something. Who cares who he played, he got the job done. Your the only one trying to diminish Manning's accomplishments with these types of weak arguments. Manning dominated yesterday.
no timeouts, a 1st year QB, inside his 20 w/ the SB on the line. There wasn't anything brilliant about that drive? 2001 he wasn't a great statistical QB but this game and this position is about more than stats. If you look at only stats then you come to the conclusion Manning is the best, if you dig deeper you can see how Brady could be considered better. The Miami D's in that era were some of the worst postseason defenses of all time. From 1998-2001 the Miami D allowed an AVERAGE of 32 PPG in playoff losses yet Peyton the great could only lead his O which averaged 27 PPg in the reg season to just 17 pts in 5 qtrs. Now the latest Peyton excuse is pressure? Vanderjagt was known as a choker in 2005, he was known as a choker years before that. The great leader that peyton is once referred to him as the "liquered up Kicker". Those are facts, in manning's 2 SB runs he was a WC team that got an AFC Title Game at home and a 1 seed that got to play a 5 and a 6 seed. manning was great yesterday, I haven't taken anything away from him but you have to run here and start a new thread on him being the best QB of the decade to start up another debate like this. It's funny how one good Manning postseason(one game really as he was mediocre against baltimore) erases all his playoff failures like one poor Brady postseason erases all his playoff success.
There was brilliant plays by JR Redmond and Troy Brown. right on cue. Peyton called him a "liquored up kicker" because of comments Vanderjagt made, not because he was thought of as a choker. He was NOT thought of as a choker until he missed the Steelers FG att. What difference does it make who he played. He got the job done correct? That's supposedly your only issue with him and he's proving you wrong so now you resort to these lame arguments.
I didn't say the drive wasn't brilliant, I said it doesn't indicate his play for the entire season was brilliant. Brady didn't become the dominating QB he is today until two seasons later. if he was so great from the get go, how come that team only finished 9-7 the very next year and missed the playoffs?
yep and no one but Peyton ever mkaes plays for the Colts. It was peyton catching a million ballas, breaking tackles,... against the Jets Sunday. All you do is make excuses- the kicker, the defense, the running game, the WRs, the coaches,... Vanderjagt was not known as a clutch kicker prior to that Pitt game. That great leader Peyton publicly insulted the guy, that had to give him great confidence. i know why peyton did it but b/c Vanderjagt made a mistake doesn't mean the leader of the team should make the same mistake. He did get the job done Sunday but it's not interesting all the breaks he got to get to his 2 SBs? In the first run he did nothing in 2 1/2 of the 3 AFC playoff games and not much in the SB. If Brady had a SB run w/ 3 TDs and 7 INTs I could only imagine how you'd bash him. I agree he wasn't the dominating QB he would become but he was the difference maker for that team to take off. How many teams that win a SB for the first time come back as good or better the next year? It's very rare, NE had a SB hangover but still finished tied for the top spot in a division where the last place team won 8 games. Remember, he won in his first year starting, his 2nd year in the league. He was far from a veteran at that point and he and that team were not used to handling that success. Ben has missed the playoffs each time after winning the SB, the Manning brothers were vets when they won but they both choked at home in their next playoff game.
Peyton was dominant on Sunday. That is undeniable. No, I point out the facts of the game. You don't ever acknowledge anything else that occurs in the game and you lay 100% of the blame on Manning every time. The funny thing is you give every excuse in the book for Brady (defense, WRs, "sometimes you only need 14 pts to win" etc. etc.). He may not have been known as a clutch kicker but he wasn't known as a choker either. Interesting only to those that feel the need to diminish his accomplishments. He could be a two time SB Champion any way you want to look at it and if he is it only hurts your argument more. Why can't you just appreciate greatness, because that's what Peyton is.
Right now, Manning is better... two years ago it was Brady... a year before that it was Manning... and a year before that it was Brady. Let 'em finish their careers and we'll see what happens. I hate Manning, but I respect him, and he's starting to show some playoff moxie. Finally. Don't forget, prior to this year, he had a sub-500 playoff record with a team that won more regular season games than any team in history. That said, he played about as well as a QB can play on Sunday, and looks like he's absolutely on top of his game. Gotta give credit where it's due. Right now, Manning is the better QB.
My only problem with Manning is the rules were changed to benefit him, specifically by Polian... The DB's can't come near a receiver anymore, which allows Manning the extra second or two he needs in the pocket to make those passes... without that rule change Manning is leaving the pocket, where he's far less effective or forcing balls leading to INT's... I'm not saying Manning isn't a great QB, he is, but I've actually changed my mind on this one... He's not Brady and it took a rule change to get him over the hump and I have a real issue with someone who beats his chest because he benefits from a rule change
The rule never changed for Manning. In fact it's been the rule since Mel Blount forced the rule. They never enforced the rule properly until after the 2003 AFCCG. And if you think Brady hasn't taken advantage of this enforcement you'd be kidding yourself. YPA 2001- 6.9 2002- 6.3 2003- 6.9 2004- 7.8 2005- 7.8 2006- 6.8 2007- 8.3 2009- 7.8 YPC 2001- 10.8 2002- 10.1 2003- 11.4 2004- 12.8 2005- 12.3 2006- 11.1 2007- 12.1 2009- 11.9
Brady won before the rule change... Manning looked like a confused high school player in the playoffs until it was enforced... from newsweek http://www.newsweek.com/id/48007
Brady is a product of the that system. Castle looked good in NE too. My guess is after next season Brady will be recognized for what he is, a good QB that played on a once great team. ats_suck:
That newsweek articleis weak. First it wasn't a rule change. Suggesting it was is incorrect. Second Marino set those records after the initial creation of those rules. Why not have an asterisk next to those? Third Brady has since broke those records (albeit neede 81 more passes and 1 more full game to do so) why does he get a pass? Brady won championships because he had better teams and the league best clutch kicker in it's history.
Maybe a dink and dunk system combined with good o-line play has helped Brady out, but in truth I've always thought of the term " system qb" to be bullshit when you're talking about HOF players. If you call a system qb a quaterback that relies on a solid offensive line, good coaching, and good receivers to be his best, who the hell isn't a system quarterback? How did Montana do in situations where he wasn't in the right "system", how has Kurt Warner been on years where his o-line and receivers aren't top notch? If it were as easy as instilling a quarterback "system" that suddenly allows just an above average guy to throw 50 touchdowns in a season, everyone would do it.
This was linked from the Times today http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5449 Vinny T would've been a great system qb.
I agree, I never said he wasn't great on Sunday. I have said over and over that he was regular season peyton against us. If he played more like reg season peyton and not postseason Peyton there wouldn't be a debate btw him and Brady. I never lay 100% of the blame on Manning but he deserves the bulk, he always gets 100% of the credit when they win by people like you so isn't it fair for him to accept the bulk of the blame when he plays poorly in big games and can't lead his high powered O's to more points? I don't give any excuses for Brady, I said he didn't play great in the SB against the Giants BUT he still led them 80 yds for the go ahead TD in the final minutes something peyton has NEVER done. You are ALWAYS giving weak excuses for Manning and making up excuses to take away credit from Brady. I never thought for a second vanderjagt was making that FG and I badly wanted Indy to win that game. It's ok to take away all the credit from Brady but i give you facts about the Colts 2 SB runs and that isn't ok. If he wins the SB he does move up and he makes it really close w/ Brady BUT Brady never had the easy paths to Sbs that Manning had- that's a fact. I have never said manning wasn't great, I just don't fellate him b/c he has great reg season fantasy #s. I appreciate when great peyton did that Sunday for one of the very few times in his career, if it was more the norm we wouldn't be having these discussions. No he wasn't, name me the big kicks he made to give him the reputation of a clutch kicker? Name all the QBs that won in that system and w/ Belichick before Brady? I love the "system QB" nonsense. Brady IS the system. What QB couldn't win multiple SBs w/ that amazing crop of WRs:rofl:
