Rex Ryan and the rebuild of the offense.

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by laxin, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    More important than yards:

    points scored:

    2009: 17th
    2010: 13th
    2011: 13th

    we had good offenses especially considering rooiw QBs, injuries, suspensions, trades, etc...
     
  2. Milliner is your Mommy

    Milliner is your Mommy Well-Known Member

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    2011 offense was amazing in the redzone but awful between the 20s. Also the turnovers killed that offense. Id rather 2010's offense.
     
  3. TNJet

    TNJet Well-Known Member

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    Rex doesn't know offense and he was in charge of making cuts to our team to get it to 53 by the end of training camp. He is responsible because he is the HC. The HC is responsible for the success of the team.

    Fire Rex now!!!!!
     
  4. The 1985er

    The 1985er Well-Known Member

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    On another note I used to think about how awesome our offense would've been in '11 if we kept Braylon/Holmes/Cothcery together and added Plaxico plus rookie Kerley.
     
  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You just said that "Rex spent most of 1st round picks on defense." and "Overall, he spent more on offense." so you obviously think that Rex had a lot of say if not control in whom was drafted by the Jets. You then say "And constant trade-aways started the entire mess" and "Not having enough picks to address the offense for the past four years should not be pinned on Rex Ryan." Why not? You can't have it both ways. If he has a strong say or control over who is drafted, then he also had a strong say or control over those trade ups and resulting lost draft picks. In all likelihood, those trade ups were done at Rex's behest because those were players he thought he had to have. He said he didn't want Hill, but made no such claim about Vlad. Vlad could very well have been a Rex pick since he excelled as a run blocker and we know that's what Rex favors.

    I agree with you that Tanny was awful and they didn't draft the way they should have and that Bray and Cotch should have been retained. I have to think that Rex had major input if not final say on who has made the team, which FAs were kept and which were allowed to leave, and the FAs that were signed during his tenure. If that's correct, then Rex is as much at fault, if not more than Tanny. If it isn't, then perhaps Rex has been victimized in terms of talent/personnel, but he's victimized himself, the team and the fans with other decisions (hiring Sparano, going conservative/passive at end of games, handling of the clock, team not showing up/being prepared for games, slowness in making adjustments, playing Sanchez at the end of a meaningless preseason game behind the 2nd or 3rd string OL, etc.).
     
  6. Mambo9

    Mambo9 Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    1) He doesn't understand shit about O (he said it himself)

    2) He doesn't give a shit about the O (look at all the drafts since he's been here)

    3) He can't judge talent on O (a result of points 1 and 2)
     
  7. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    absolutely, 2010 was better. I agree w/ everything you said here.
     
  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I could live with that. I don't think it's the answer, but am willing to admit I could be wrong about that. That said, unless Rex has truly learned his lesson about needing an aggressive offense, the idea of his being involved in deciding who is signed in FA and drafted to rebuild the offense scares the bejeebers out of me. I would also be royally pissed if the Jets keep Rex (even without an extension) and the team flounders and meanwhile Bevell, Romano and a number of the prospective HC candidates whose names have been tossed around become HCs of other teams and those teams flourish.
     
  9. johnnysd

    johnnysd Well-Known Member

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    Such an amazingly stupid argument. First round picks are MUCH more valuable because they are better players and more likely to be good to great NFL players. As each round goes by the odds of getting better players drops precipitously. Only a fool would think that drafting 2 first rounders on defense and 5 4th to 7th rounders is anywhere close to equitable from a talent standpoint. Quantity does not make up for quality
     
  10. Jersey Joe 67

    Jersey Joe 67 Well-Known Member

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    No FA's would come here with a lame duck coach. All that would show is that the powers that be don't know how to make a decision and that we are an unstable organization.

    Extend 2 yrs or cut bait.
     
  11. Bellows1

    Bellows1 Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Rex was pissed when Revis wanted a new contract with time left on his. It's a fair gamble, if he turns the team around, he can ask for more money, if we get more of the same we can fire him.

    Extending Rex means nothing, it may cost Woody a few mil., but he can be fired at any point.
     
  12. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Those are completely different scenarios. The turn-around has already begun, from last season to now. He did an excellent job coaching this season.

    He deserves a 1 or 2 year extension. If things don't work out fire him then. Rex can be fired at any point despite the extension.
     
  13. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I was loose with the term there - but to make myself clear:

    1. I do NOT think Rex made the pick.
    2. The point is, EVEN IF YOU BLAME REX FOR THE FIRST ROUND PICKS, Jets during Ryan era spent more on offense. You cannot deny this fact.
    3. Also, look at FA acquisition. After Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard, who was the pricey recruit? Cro is about the only one out there. On offense? Braylon, Santonio, to name a few. [And Jets O already had Faneca and Woody at OL, and Thomas Jones at the backfield.]
     
    #53 Zach, Dec 23, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  14. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Are you talking about in terms of money?

    If so, dont ignore the fact that we have drafted 5 consecutive defensive players in the 1st round. We may not have gone out and spent money on a ton of defensive FA acquisitions, but thats only because the team has used their #1 resource to acquire defensive players. They are obviously on their first contracts and dont require a lot of money. If Rex had his way, Revis would be given the contract he asked for and would still be on the team too.

    Also, I dont know how you can not think Rex played a large part in the draft picks. I mean the guy personally worked out Coples.
     
  15. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    One of the statements in the opening post is so skewed. "Only one coach has won the Super Bowl after five years without previously winning one."

    7/32 head coaches have won Super Bowls. Fire the other 25?

    In terms of the offense though, there are several things that need to obviously be addressed. One of the biggest things I'd like to see is can we get rid of the damn wild cat already? We're two years behind the league. Yeah it looks nice when you get a 7 yard game but it completely takes the quarterback out of a rhythm if he's in one and this was incredibly evident with Sanchez. A 15 yard completion and here comes the wild cat to completely ruin the momentum.

    I think Sanchez should be cut and left for free agency. I don't think he got a fair shot, but you can't beat a dead horse. His confidence in New York is shot, the fans are on the edges of their seat waiting to boo him. A change of scenery would probably do him some good, as it seems almost impossible for him to succeed here, especially when the entire organization is handcuffing him within the offense anyway.

    With that being said, Geno can't be handed the job. A mid round pick should be used on a quarterback if a quality pro style QB is on the board. Enough of these spread conversions. Geno ran the spread, but didn't run the ball, yet we bring him in and assume he's a read option guy despite the fact he's never ran it in his life. Traditional play action would help this team, rather than the bullshit out of shotgun that no one is buying anyway.

    Even though I haven't had a problem with the drafting as of late outside of Milliner (didn't want him when the pick happened), the Jets NEED to go offense maybe even the first FOUR rounds. As far as I'm concerned, we need two guards, and a shit ton of playmakers. I think a young guy should be brought in to compete with Geno rather than a veteran. A veteran doesn't help us find our franchise quarterback, it gives us a stop gap and ruins Geno whether he's the guy or not.

    The rebuild of the offense needs to be done with taking the best playmaker available and then offensive line. Kerley is solid, Cumberland's okay, and Nelson's good for his role on 3rd downs. Outside of that, I really don't see any of these receivers coming back and making any type of contribution. The team NEEDS to load up this team with threats. Despite the fact that Geno has struggled against zone coverage, good route runners help a young quarterback especially one with a cannon. Zone coverage or not, if receivers are quality in and out of their break, a big arm can hide a bad read a lot of the time.

    The running game should be left in tact. Ivory/Powell are a good 1-2 punch, maybe sign a lower level contract or bring Goodson back. Running back is no longer a premium position when you're finding Eddie Lacy's and Leveon Bell's in the third round. Not to mention it's a very pass heavy draft, rather than back heavy.


    P.S. that statistic is bogus.

    Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, Weeb Ewbank, John Madden, Bill Cowher, and you can even throw in Hank Stram, all won Super Bowls after 5+ years with the same team without previously winning one. So please stop bringing this up, it's pretty moot at this point.
     
    #55 Jonathan_Vilma, Dec 23, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  16. Aewhistory

    Aewhistory Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but if the attitude is that Rex should just worry about the defense then the hasn't a HEAD coach. That job is called defensive coordinator. The job of HC is to run the entire team: to coach, delegate, manage, etc. it is clear to me that even RR's supporters think he is a DC but believe he is so good at this job that it is worth keeping him on as HC. This is a silly argument, though. A HC needs to be able to manage the ENTIRE game and ENTIRE team. The mere fact that RR still hasn't grasped offenses well enough to feel comfortable handling anything associated with that side of the ball is a stinging indictment of his personal limitations. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good, loyal man and a helluva DC. Shoot, if we could make him our DC I'd be all over that shit. But we cannot and he needs to go so a real HC can come in to manage this team.
     
  17. Jersey Joe 67

    Jersey Joe 67 Well-Known Member

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    Yes a HC needs to concern himself with the entire team, I agree, but no matter who you get in they will have a specialty for which they got the job in the first place.
    A HC needs to be a team manager not have his hands in controlling every facet of the team.
    This is the reason for OC's DC's and STC's.
    Rex does need to learn more about managing the entire team and his in game skills need to be refined also, but the fact is players play for him , they want to play for him.
    This is Rex' biggest selling point and one that I don't think should be overlooked.
     
  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you regarding the Wildcat and Sanchez. Enough already. It's time for the Jets to move on from both.

    While I agree that a veteran doesn't help the Jets find their future QB, I totally disagree that a vet would ruin Geno. The reason for bringing a vet in is to compete with Geno. If Geno wins the competition, great, then the Jets will have a solid backup if Geno gets hurt or falters. If not, then the team won't have to go with a QB in Geno who isn't ready or good enough to start. They would have either a veteran or perhaps the rookie they draft in the middle rounds. I am for doing both, bringing in a vet and drafting another QB in the 3rd or 4th round. My reasoning is that even if Geno pans out, they're going to need a QB. If they can find a good QB who will be a solid backup, then the QB position for the Jets could be stabilized for the next 5-10 years. If the kid they draft beats out Geno and the vet, that's fine too. If he doesn't beat out the vet, but shows promise he could potentially be the QB of the future, the backup for the QB they draft in 2015, or be traded to another team if both Geno and he develop into quality starting-caliber QBs. The vet offers insurance. I don't think very many fans would be happy with going into the season with two young QBs, neither of whom is ready to start in the NFL and play at a high level.

    To be clear, I am still high on Geno's potential. Hopefully, he'll get his fundamentals fixed this off-season, but lots of QBs never completely fix their fundamentals. I think the Jets need to hedge their bets since the QB position is THE most important and it's been too many years since the Jets have had a quality starter at QB.

    It sounds like you're advocating taking a WR or TE with the 1st round pick, then OL in the next 3 rounds. If so, I totally disagree. There's no doubt that the OL needs help, but the WR and TE positions need it more. The team also desperately needs a quality FS. Also, what about that young QB you want the team to draft. If they go OL in rounds 2-4, are you advocating taking a QB in the 5th round?

    I think one of their FA priorities should be in trying to sign Jon Asamoah away from KC. He would solidify the LG spot. He's also supposedly versatile and can play a number of OL positions. What they do with the other OL spot depends upon what they think of Winters', Campbell's and Freeman's development. If they don't think any of those three can be a reliable starter at the other OG position, then by all means they need to add another in FA or draft one in the 4th or 5th round to compete.

    I hope the top 5 picks (2-3rd rounders) will be used on WR, TE, QB, FS, & WR if players at those positions are rated as the BPA or very close to that.

    The coaches you mentioned are all ancient history. The game and league have changed dramatically since then. Yes, the point is moot, but then most of the things we discuss on this board are moot. That's what generates discussion. If everything was factual, cut and dried. There'd be no room for discussion.
     
  19. dr.velociraptor

    dr.velociraptor Tired of BS

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    It sucks for Rex that he's probably gotten the worst QB play over a 5 year span than any head coach in the league and he still did a lot of positive things here. If he had a top 10 forget it, we'd be looking at giving Rex a 10 year extension.

    What can any HC do with Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith at QB? They were both statistically bottom of the heap, just terrible.
     
  20. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    The question is how much of a role does the head coach have in the development of qb's and has Rex Ryan had a positive impact on qb development during his tenure?

    I think most of us can agree that he hasn't gotten much out of his qb's.
     

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