Tanny will go after Holmes first I believe. And will offer Holmes the most unless Holmes wants ridicolous money
The only thing that worries me is what Vincent Jackson wanted which was 5 year 50 million. And I think Santonio wants a similar number which is just WAY to much for this team.
I want to start this by saying I typically respect your posts, so no disrespect meant here. I'm not trying to argue what can or cannot happen. That wasn't my intent to start a debate on probability of injury in certain scenarios, or what's absurd or not. We'd probably agree in lots of ways on that. My point was, that with this ridiculous state the league is in, it's a fact, a complete fact, top agents are advising their players to sit certain things out, if they're at certain junctures in their career, and without a contract. It's just what it is. And it's not as if we can play like IF players were to suffer an injury, the teams or NFL wouldn't approach it like a business. They absolutely would. They'd be cutthroat. So, why shouldn't the players when making certain decisions, as well? Roshenhaus even said there's a different type of liability with "organized workouts" of this manner, team simulation, etc. I think there are some legal technicalities, that I'm not well versed enough to work through, honestly. I trust he knows what he's talking about, however. I get that, but... First off, we don't know if that's the certain cause for sure. Nor do we know what the schedule or timing of everything surrounding it might be, if it is. As has been said upthread, his "family reasons" may just be, he's not taking on the liability, not with an RFA tag on him, and an unsigned one at that. If it is a family reason, whatever it is, every time he's said he's had a "family reason" thus far, it's been legit. His son's surgery, etc. He's given no reason to make me think that he'd just start making up stuff now. Second, it's a sort of big jump to make, to assume he's not taking care of himself in the off season, or he's not going to be staying in shape, or he's not being responsible, because he's not at this one camp. A camp that Mark indicated a couple of weeks ago, he was likely going to do two of, so that he made sure everyone would be able to participate in at least ONE of them. We already know Santonio has one of the most strenuous off season regimens in the league. Including Tom Shaw's Camp he goes to. Do you truly think he's going to be lazy or unconditioned this off season and are we sure he hasn't assured Mark that he'll be at the second camp he does? And about character... Santonio played injured for us at the end of last season, and worsened the injury, in to what? A quad and a hip issue, right, on a $1.2M contract, knowing he was going in to FA, a time most people protect themselves the minute they get a bump or bruise. But he didn't, he played, worsening the turf toe (which lingers) and sustaining further issues, to his hip and quad based on added pressure and adjustments he had to make while playing with the initial turf toe injury... I don't know... I'm not comfortable or willing to make the same leaps you are about what he might or might not be willing to do, or what type of character he may or may not have when it comes to the team. He's not under contract, he says there's something he has to be at, there are real liability concerns on top of that, I would not be shocked if Mark's mention of a second camp, was in part knowing Santonio wouldn't be at the first one, and I'm not willing to make certain leaps about what he would or would not do as a teammate, not at this point. Good deal if you are, but I just don't see it like that, at all.
Probably posturing, but I'm sure he'd leave if some team demolished the Jets offer. Don't blame him. If all things are equal financially, I think he stays with the Jets. Its too soon to worry about this. Too much is up in the air. Including the actual season itself.
Holmes is the better talent but Braylon fits this offense better. Watching him on the sidelines you can tell he wants to be the guy for Sanchez. I'm not saying Holmes wasn't trying or didn't care but Edwards has made every attempt to say he wants to stay. As for Holmes' attitude, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him want to get th cash. He.can be the #1 WR for any team in this league except Houston, Arizona and Detroit...maybe Dallas. I really wouldn't expect too much loyalty for a team that only spent a 5th round on him, only had him for 3/4 of the regular season and due to personnel fits wouldn't play him above the #2 WR position. Especially not when teams are going to be willing to pay for him.
Cunty, even if it is posturing. If he had said, "I'd love to stay here, but i also want to be paid what i'm worth" or something to that effect, then that would have been more respectful to the fans and organization without boxing himself into a corner. I don't blame him for wanting to get paid, he hasn't made the top 3 pick money like Braylon has(braylon also made 6 mil last year. Santonio made like 600k or so). But whatever, if the redskins or raiders are going to pay him an outrageous amount, let him fuckin rot his career away. He should understand he's a liability with his past suspension and conduct problems, and not act like a fuckin diva. If he smokes pot again, he's done for the year. that's a lot of money to dump for a guy hanging on a shoestring. Pay braylon, and get someone else if it comes to that. there will be players available through trade or free agency to take his spot. Braylon is a better blocker, and every team needs 1 big, tall receiver at the minimum.
I'll never understand fans' angry reactions to a guy who says that he would rather try to grab a real contract over an RFA tender when he knows he can get payed to be a number one. If I was Santonio, I wouldn't sign an RFA tender at this point in my career either.
None taken. I have no problem with people disagreeing. Besides, I wasn't calling your post absurd, I was calling Holmes' position absurd. I agree. Like I said, I was stating that the position of the agents and players was absurd. I'm not going to excuse the players because their agents are advising them to do something stupid. It seemed like you may have been giving Holmes a bit of a long leash because he was just following orders. I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. Of course they would. They'd treat it like a business, and players should as well. Part of the players' side of that idea is keeping in football shape during the offseason. Like I said, if it's run like last year's Jets West camp, it's as low risk as standard conditioning. I can see why full team offseason workouts would be discouraged. It's different for a passing camp. I know, but if we're raising that as a possibility, it's not a valid reason to miss the camp IMO. No, we're not, and I'll acknowledge that. It's the following that concerns me more: He did the smart thing for a guy wanting to redeem himself and earn a new contract. "Injury concern" would be a perilous addition to the list of drawbacks to signing him. By playing through (and turf toe can linger regardless of whether you play through it or not), he showed a certain level of commitment to future suitors. As far as I know, he didn't have anything that threatened his career, so the risk isn't what you make it out to be, and he played the odds on the right side of things. It was smart. If I'm making leaps, you're doing the same. You've made certain assumptions based on possible scenarios, I've made assumptions based on other possible scenarios. No one is arguing differently or claiming to know for certain where he's at. Again, if there are "liability concerns" preventing him from doing this, there are "liability concerns" with his entire workout regimen. My family is in the training business and works with NFL players. Jets West is a hell of a lot less strenuous and demanding than the typical workout. If Santonio's is particularly strenuous, then all the more reason for him not to be concerned about his health taking place. Again (and this bears repeating since you opted to make the claim twice), we're all dealing in hypothetical situations here. Nobody is saying what he is or isn't, we're giving possible interpretations. You raised one possible cause, I raised another. I don't see anyone definitively stating what Santonio is or isn't on the limited info.
The system is the system, and I don't agree with a player coming right out and saying he won't sign his tender. There's a world of difference between: 1) Waiting to see where free agency falls and then attempting to negotiate with the team that now holds your rights and 2) Coming out ahead of the resolution to the labor dispute and stating an intention to pull a Vincent Jackson. We have no idea how this is going to turn out, and there are more than just two possible outcomes. The idea of 2010 rules being applied seems likely IF it reverts to a court decision, but that's far from a guarantee. He had absolutely no reason to comment on his behavior if that scenario comes to fruition. Of course he should try to get a real contract. What he shouldn't do is open his mouth about it before the team even has a chance to negotiate.
Every attempt should have been made to extend Braylon at a good price when we could have prior to the expiration of the league year.
more quotes # Santonio Holmes: "A biz move was made 2send me 2 NY in last yr of my deal in Pitt. I don’t know what odds of me staying a Jet or moving on" More #Jets Santonio Holmes: "I don’t want to play anywhere for 1 yr. If I sign a contract, it’s going to be for multiple yrs" #nyj #nfl #Jets Santonio Holmes on not signing RFA tender if it comes to that: "I played 5 years to wait for my contract to come up in my 6th yr." some moron tweeted holmes this.. RoEsSeL21NyJ @santonio10 wait and see approach?...dead ass when niggas in pitt threw ya ass in the garbage and we traded for u ASAP..SMFH #moneyhungry about 1 hour ago via Twitter for iPhone Retweeted by santonio10 and holmes retweeted it lol
I would say a lot of fans (myself included) see Holmes as the better receiver but Braylon as the better teamate and probably the better medium term option I cant hate players for wanting to maximise the money they get - its a short career and if someone were to offer me twice as much to do the same job I would take it without a second thought - especially given that teams trade away players or dump them at a moments notice - there is no real loyalty either way (other than from the fans and you cant expect players to act like fans or they would play for free)
I also prefer BE over Holmes, although slants are the only play I can run well in Madden. Fuck it, let's keep Holmes so I can be better at Madden.
See, I have no problem with that. It's just another negotiating move as far as I'm concerned. I really don't appreciate the idea of a player dodging the truth with "We'll see what happens" quotes when he knows what he is willing to play for. He doesn't want an RFA tender to be his salary, he's looking forward to his second contract, he's never made one bitchy comment about his salary under that first contract since he signed it. Someone asked him what he thinks about the idea of being forced into an RFA tender after 6 seasons in the league and I can understand that he's pissed off about the idea. He shouldn't have to play diplomat towards a deal he knows he will hate. If he's not willing to sign for an RFA deal, why should the fans hear something different than what he'll say to the FO? Fans are just going to rip him apart when the Cimini/PFT tweet about the leaked information. If a 6 yr veteran doesn't want to sign an RFA tender I can understand that.
I've been on the Braylon bandwagon for a while now, IMO he's more valuable than Holmes ... Holmes can cry cry all he wants, but he's not getting a crazy deal from the Jets Have fun playing for the Raiders or Redskins ... We don't need all these weapons, Braylon, Keller and Cotch that's all Sanchez needs ... add in a Chansi Stucky as a slot WR and were fine ... eventually Sanchez will be good enough where-as he can make his teammates better on the field Keller needs to be more involved in the offense anyway
I'm also one of those people who would prefer Edwards over Holmes. A nice spot for Holmes would be Atlanta. That offense would be more potent with Holmes starting opposite Roddy White than it currently is with Michael Jenkins starting.
