A hold is awarded to a relief pitcher if he enters in a save situation, records at least one out, and leaves the game without having relinquished that lead. It is also not necessary for the pitcher's team to win the game in order to achieve a hold Even regardless of how much I hate it from a fantasy sense, t just seems like a really weak stat to me. There's a reason the best relievers close and that many of the best setup men simply can't handle it.
In your league Turnbow 4W 9L 6.87 ERA or Dempster 1W 9L 4.80 ERA have good value simply because they have 24 saves each. Meanwhile guys like Zumaya, Scot Shields, Heilman, Rincon, Wheeler have close to no value at all and won't even be drafted despite being some of the most valuable players on their MLB staffs. There's something wrong with that.
Not in a fantasy league that knows what its doing. Relievers are important to keep ERAs and WHIPs down... if those guys are your closer, believe me, you're not doing well. Scot Shields is always a middle round pick and ranks from 60-120 in a given season. Wheeler was garbage. Zumaya was a hot commodity.
I can attest to this. If a middle reliver gives you 6 innings in a week and gives up a run, that's like an extra starter. I found this to be particularly useful in one of my leagues. I think that reward is equivalent to what the middle reliever thing should be about.
Yeah but those guys will get picked in a league without holds, where as guys like Heilman who are much better pitchers in real baseball will not. You're cutting out an important part MLB if you cut the set up man.
Even some of the best middle relievers will not hold as much value as a guy like Dempster if you take away holds. Where as in real MLB they are way more valuable then Dempster.
Who would you rather have on your team? Pitcher A 75.1 IP 10 W 32 BB 84 K 3.70 ERA 1.34 WHIP Pitcher B 83.1 IP 6 W 42 BB 97 K 1.94 ERA 1.18 WHIP What about... Pitcher A 72.1 IP 5W 30BB 51K 2.86ERA 1.33WHIP Pitcher B 73.2 IP 8W 23BB 70K 1.83ERA 1.06 WHIP
I don't think realism is a top priority in fantasy baseball. It's about accumulating statistics, and holds are a bogus one. Heck, they're only a year old officially.
Thats why I waited until this morning to post. First of all, I never snuck or placed a stat into the league. Holds was an original stat that every owner, including yourself agreed to. This is your qoute after you set the league up. It sounds more like you are putting in a stat and then allowing us the chance to "discuss" it. When you started the league, I kind of wondered why you choose to set it up and why was it done so quickly. Besides 17a and his usual draft order, I didnt see any posts or received any e-mails asking why the league hadnt been set up yet and as I usually do, I was looking at other sites to see if their were any improvments made to them that would benefit the league. Last night the reason finally came to me, you did so you could remove the one stat that you dont like. That's it. I dont know if you were doing it for the better of the league but I do know that you are doing it for yourself due to your stance on the stat . Despite your hate for the stat, you were still able to overcome it and win the league last year. There were also some small other changes that you made including wait time for trades & waivers and the cant cut list. The league was originally set up so that every owner has a say in it. The league is only as good as its participants and will evolve or die with them as well. I dont like the Walks stat for this league because it is a negative stat and originally all stats were to be positive stats. If we include walks for pitchers then why not k's for hitters. I was in a league last year that had 30 total stats including GIDP and BS. As long as everyone understands what they are getting it to, thats cool and I have no problem losing the HOLDS stat for something else as long as it is agreed upon by all owners. If a better alternative comes up, I would vote for that instead of HOLDS. Everything in this league is subject to vote, and I mean everything. No one owner is above any other owner and that includes the commissioner. I guess the question I still have is: Is this still the TGG league or is it the Mantana Soss league?
I kind of agree with the latter statement. If the commissioner has any additional sway either way that is personal, he or she is not doing a good job. Also, I don't know exactly why commissionners were changed. Buttleman does a great job as usual and out of respect to him, it should be HIS position to give up so long as everyone is happy with it. I thought that was the plan all along and it's really unfair to ButtleMan who was working hard to find the right provider of the league and have someone step over him, and change a lot of minor stats no less. Soss, just how you lead the Sstarship keeper league and it's assumed you would commish that league, the same assumption applies to this one. This league is entering its third year of operation, and commissioners don't change from year to year unless it's spoken about, especially in this fashion. I call for a motion to resart the league with original stats and ButtleMan as commish as it was designed to be, unless Soss respectfully resigns beforehand.
its Mantana's World,we're just livin in it. with the first pick the Maruarders select pujols,howard,reyes,santana,krod&utley. ok who picks 2nd?
Buttle, you act like it was me-against-the-world with Holds. The vote was 6-6. And I think if not-holds was the status quo, they would never have made it in. Additionally I personally never agreed to the stat. I went and commished it because I was awake the moment Yahoo opened up the leagues, thats why the number in the link is so small. Also, I think I can do a very good job of it, as I obviously care, and it's something I'm going to check on every single day. As for "There were also some small other changes that you made including wait time for trades & waivers and the cant cut list." -- I think I clicked the button that said to take the settings exactly as they were from last year's league ... and then I changed holds. If something is different, I didn't do it. Either way, I transferred commish rights. I hope that Buttle will PM a proper list of in-debate questions to be voted on.
A save is just a hold that happens at the end of the game. If you think they are a bad stat and shouldn't be used, then neither should saves, since they are basically the same stat. Home runs in the 7th count, so why shouldn't saves in the 7th? And honestly, the "closer" position is one of the biggest mistakes baseball has ever made. If you use any kind of logic at all, your best pitcher should be used to get the most important outs. Most of the time, those outs are NOT in the ninth inning. Set up men face just as much, if not more pressure as closers. Up one in the 7th or 8th with the bases loaded is a hell of a lot more important than up three in the 9th with the bases empty. If he were used properly, Rivera would rack up a TON of holds and not many saves at all, because he would be brought into those 7th or 8th inning situations more. Saving your best reliever for use ONLY in the ninth inning of a close game is just one of those traditional baseball ideas that really makes no sense.
