I think your argument has merit, providing we play to our max potential, and many other teams play down from their own. Then we have a chance in having a decent season. Each year usually brings you something, or some team from somewhere no one thought. Someone usually over-exceeds the expectations. Could be us - who knows. Would be a wild ride though. For those of not just obsessed with the overall destination, of course.
I might buy into 5-3 by the bye. Hear me out: @Tennesse - W NEW ENGLAND - L @Buffalo - W INDIANAPOLIS - L @Jacksonville - L MIAMI - W DETROIT - W @Cleveland - W
im with ya on the addition by substratcion thing winston, big time...but we also have subtraction by subtraction in losing martin
Ok Winston...I have a question for you..I have thrown this question to champ numerous times and he has answered it...but not totally. You and I are on the same page as far as Mr. EDwards goes. Heres the problem Im having with your theory. You state that the Jets roster is better than the roster of 04 correct? You state the coaching is much better now than before. If the coaching was so flawed back in 04..and the roster was not as good as it is today, how did the Jets come within a kick of the AFC championship. It has long been my argument (with much confusion on my part also) that the Jets couldnt have a flawed roster..and a terrible coach..and be fairly competitive during the Herm years. I always thought that the roster was a pretty damn good one. The offensive line blocked for the leader rusher in the NFL....yet the leading rusher didnt have a run over 25 yards...Im sure thats a record that will never be broken. That tells me that this rusher had some mighty holes..but lacked breakaway speed. It just doesnt add up that on paper...I REPEAT...ON PAPER, that the Jets during the Herm years had an average roster at best..yet achieved some pretty decent numbers in wins..and playoff wins. Either the coach was good..with an average roster...or the roster was good with an average/below average coach. All this really has nothing to do with this year...I just have a problem with you saying this roster is better than the Herm rosters. It did have to be one or the other no?
Martin was good but he's main attributes are not fumbling and picking up the blitz. It's not like he was getting us 4.5 per carry. He's production can be replaced with fresh backs and using guys like Washington for screens and dump offs instead of utilizing Martin on a draw play on third and 12. The guy is going into the HOF becuase of his production over time not because he dominated every year.
not fumbling and picking up the blitz is huge........but by saying we;re gonna dump off the ball and run screens instead of a draw play to martin says obviously that you think the mentality of this coaching staff will be so far better that we will do well....and with that my friend I will not argue...because I hated herm as much as anyone.....and I hope you are right that the coaching staff handcuffed us so much that our level of improvemtn this year is not capped
In 2004, the only things we had going for us were a great OL and a servicable defense. However, both of our strengths would have turned into weaknesses with ONE injury. We got lucky, as our depth was terrible. With the exception of NT (due to 2 season ending injuries), we have tremendous depth in 2006 at EVERY position. We may not have a superstar at QB or RB, but we have 2-3 guys at each position with the potential to bust out big time. We have the best D backfield since guys named Glenn and Coleman were on the team. Our L backers are young and fast, rather than old and slow. We have a great rotation of 3-4 D ends. Our OL is way young, and that could hurt us, but if they gel quick enough they will not be a weakness. We may not have better starters at every position compared to 2004, but our depth is leaps and bounds beyond what we had then. Our season will ultimately depend on how fast the youngs guys progress. That will be the difference between 4 and 10 wins.
2004 an awfull lot of things went right for this team. Donnie Henderson took over the D and actually ran the D his way. No Herm telling Fat Teddy to run the cover two. Drob, Ferguson and Barton all carreer years under Henderson. Paul Hackett, who everyone blames for the Jets failures was actual the guy who made that team. Hackett was an ass but not because of the way he handcuffed Chad but for the way he handcuffed Vinny. Hackett stressed execution and the short touch pass. We had a veteran line with Mawae, Fabini left over from the Parcells period along with Sowell, Martin and Pennington. It wasn't a great O but the schedule was favorable enough to get us in the playoffs. In the playoffs we had the very good fortune of facing a Marty Shotenheimer coached team. Marty is a 3 to 1 underdog in every playoff game he will every be in. Follow it up by playing a Cowher coached team with a rookie QB who tried to hand us the game on numerous occassions and you might say the stars were alligned in our favor. This year we have the same kind of powder puff schedule. I think we have a better defense than in 04. I don't particularly like Chad as a weapon at QB but he certainly is servicable and clearly we have much more QB depth than we did in 04 for when Chad has his season ending injury. Now in 04 we had a great 1, 2 punch in Martin and Jordan, sadly the two punch was rarely thrown. I think we are going to get production out of 3 or 4 backs this year and I also think you will see the tight end come into play even though we haven't seen it in preseason. The NFL is about match ups. Last year you could make an argument that SD had the best team in Football and the schedule + Marty kept them out of the playoffs. Herm took over a team that was an injured QB away from a serious SB team and limped into the playoffs 3 times before it was over. This team while not great has talent and has some very favorable match ups. We may not have a great HC, who knows at this point. We don't have Herm and that alone is worth two wins.
Fenwyr nice post but I don't agree we had a great OL in 04 it was decent. The OL was absolutely manhandled by both the Steelers and NE. We played a lot of week fronts in 04 and we played with both a blocking FB and blocking TE with 2 WR sets all the time in 04. We were built to run and we had a veteran line with a very good veteran back. When we faced equally tough D fronts we really weren't winning the battle. You could see what happend week one against KC when we tried to open it up a little the line fell apart.
Okay, you son of a bitch! We're prepared to send you the proceeds we got off of Stubhub for my Jets-Eagles preseason game. Although the tickets cost me $380 (4 X $95... in the Mezzanine), I collected a total of $42.80. This is going out to you ASAP. As far as the girls are concerned, would it be okay if I send you the pics I have of Mangini leaving that gay bar dressed in the pink evening gown?
If the Jets win more than 8 games, I will wake up. This isn't going to happen, not this year. SO many things would have to fall perfectly... to the point it's near impossible. The rookie linemen will make mistakes. This is a whole new unit, and it takes more than one summer to get it to work as a unit. The offense can't handle the blitz... at ALL. When Washington blitzed, they killed us, and the Giants did the same thing. We don't have an RB that can pass block.This makes it difficult to take any downfield shots. That is why we don't take many, or any downfield shots. The offense will be facing 8 in the box, or even nine playing tight all year. That will make the dink and dunk and running game ineffective. The TE's seem unable to get open behind the LB's, which also makes the conservative offense more difficult to execute. Yes, the defense is good, but the achilles heel is NT. As a side note, I have to say that Barber hardly ran over us... he was 11 for 60, but one of those runs was a twenty yarder. So, in the other 10 carries he got 40 yards for a 4.0 YPC. Hardly running over us. We are still young in spots on defense, and Miller, Coleman and Rhodes will also make their share of mistakes. It is a new system after all. Just don't see it Winston, and I'm generally the optomistic sort... and I remain optomistic... for 2008.
TB weren't you the one who kept saying Pennington arm is fine? In order to win you always need a lot to go right that's a given. As great as our SB was it was Namath holding together for that season as impossible as that was that allowed that to happen. Mangold has looked real good to me. Clements and D'Brick will be fine. Teague is coming back for some depth I think our line will be okay against the typical NFL rabble. The Giants, Skins and TB have real good veteran Defenses and are all playoff caliber teams. Give them a chance against TN and Buffalo and let's see if they can settle down. I think they will because this coaching staff isn't going to let it slide out of control.
I second this, but change the year to 2007. I think one year can really change this team, "parity" being what it is today. But even more so, parity, like charity, begins at home. And I think Tangini can generate some parity. We'll contend in the '07-'08 season. This year, maybe we get to 9-7 and that's with a lot of luck and few injuries. We could do 10-6 though, which might get us into the playoffs.
Well, we still had McKenzie and Mawae and Fabini were 1 offseason from falling off a cliff in terms of performance. In 2005 we had no McKenzie, and regardless of injuries, Fabini and Mawae sucked even when healthy. It was about as good an OL as we could have asked for in 2004. Refer to Martin's rushing title as evidence. 2005 was a whole different story. Now we have a couple vets and 3 young talented guys (yes, I am a Moore supporter). If this line gels quick enough it will be our best OL in many many years.
I love Pennington... and yes, his arm looks better than it has since 2002. But, without Martin, I think Penny's arm gets more... exposed. With Martin, and a proven running game, it did work in 2004. Without Martin, I don't think it does, unless Barlow turns into twice the RB he has been so far. Sure, i could be wrong, but I no longer see the make up of the offense as well suited to Chad's strengths this year compared to 2004. Martin was never a game changer. He was a game controller. His abilities (and his blocking) are what made the 2004 offense work. Martin didn't win games.... he lead the offense to wins. That is the big difference this year. It was Martin's all around game that made him so good.... he wasn't spectacular at anything, but he did everything very well. We don't have that now. I just don't think Pennington can be effective enough without Martin and the with the group we now have on offense. This is the main reason I look to 2008..... and Clemens. That is not to mention I think the future RB for the Jets is still in college, and he'll need 2007 to gain experience. I think "Tangini" is looking to remain as competitive as possible while they rebuild..... Many of our signings point to that as well. Kimp von, Teague, Clement, Barlow.... all hold the fort guys. If they can outperform expectations, great, but I think their eyes are on the prize more realistically for 2008. I think it's rebuild, but win as much as possible in the meantime. Be respectable, if not a contender... build a winning attitude. Why? Going 4-12 does NOT build a winning attitude. There has to be some improvement in the win colunm while they go about rebuilding. Steady, sure progress, not just in quality of play, but in wins too. All part of the overall plan. Doormat teams often fall into losing ways.... and that is why they are approaching it like this... to avoid being a doormat.
IMO the Patriots are deeper than they have been in 2 years on D (and their offense can't be stopped).
He won't answer because it's the same answer that he has had since seconds after the clock ticked zero during Super Bowl XXXVI. He imagines himself as the owner of the Jets, and he would do whatever it takes to steal Belichick from New England. That has been his answer all along, and he is nothing if not repetitive.
