So, piecing together your comments, you actually feel this 2006 team is more talented than the 2004 team?? 2004 we had a healthier Chad (before the injury), Curtis, Chrebet, Mawae, Ferguson (who had a great year), Abraham, Jordan (that's TWO capable RBs, we don't even have 1 right now), McKenzie, Moss ... And you feel that this team, minus all those players (except Chad who's a ? right now), is BETTER? :rofl: Now I know you've lost it. We have Ferguson and Mangold, sure, but McKenzie and Mawae were far more developed than they are right now. Herm and Bradway "gutted" the team when they got here, but were still left with two Pro Bowl quality DEs, a potential franchise QB, an up and coming WR (Coles), a Pro Bowl/future Hall of Fame RB, a Pro Bowl center... And yet you feel they walked into a WORSE situation? You are priceless.
The first team Herm had also had Chrebet and Vinny a year removed from his achiles injury Randy Thomas, Richie Anderson, Marcus Coleman, Aron Glen, James Farrior, VIctor Green, Marvin Jones, Mo Lewis, Chad Morton, Jerald Sowell all still playing at a very high level.
What this jerk..and after reading that article...the term jerk has never ever found a better fit..what this jerk fails to realize is that MOST Jet fans wanted this change. We were sick of press conferences..every damn day..telling us every little detail of the life and times of a player on the NYJ's. We had a coach get up in front of them and say things like "nah..hes ok...he just jammed his thumb a litte bit...hes tough" or "We will have to wait and see until the end of the week..its a pretty bad sprain..but hes tough...I think he will be out there" while coaches around the league just needed to read his press clippings to find out any weakness they could. Paranoid...you bet...but paranoid is a good thing...its part of preperation..not helping the team you are playing prepare to the best of their ability. After 5 years of having a coach that held back nothing...NOT ONE SINGLE THING...because it was more important how his reputation with the media and world was, yeah, Jet fans are OK with a coach that shuts his damn trap and coaches. Eric, just shut the fu#$# up and coach...yell at your players on the sideline..yell at your other coaches when a guy misses an assignment...shake your head with disgust when you see a play that breaks down..or a tackle is missed. We saw you last night on the sidelines..and after five years of butt slapping..smiling and cheerleading...you are just what the doctor ordered for many of us.
I agree, I do not like people every speaking for me. For the record, I AM FINE with the way the front office is handling things. The NY media always finds ways to hurt the team, Tangini is trying not to let this happen, good for them.
I can't figure this out at all. The job of any reporter is to "report what they see and hear" right? So how the heck does a lack of access to inside information damage them in any way, unless they are losing hacks who cannot see and hear well enough to write a decent story? I have no inside access at all. I can't talk to Mangini or Tannenbaum or any of the players. That hasn't stopped me from watching and speculating on what has been a fascinating camp. Is Chad the starter? Well nobody has said anything but it's pretty clear he has the inside track, based on his performance. Are his injuries going to get in the way? Who knows, but so far he seems to be holding up. Okay, that's a story and I had no inside information on which to base it. Just what I've seen and heard. Do we have a tailback to grind out some yards this year? Well, nobody is distinguishing themselves in camp and the Jets have made at least one aborted trade for a tailback. That's a story you could write without any inside info. How is the new offensive line holding up? They seem to be having some ups and downs, looking good one day and not so good the next. Growing pains for some of them maybe. There's another story. Eyes and ears are all you need, no lifeline to the coaching staff required. Does the defense look like they have a chance of recapturing their 2004 form? Certainly. They've looked better than expected almost across the board, with the possible exception of NT - where nobody is distinguishing themselves. Another story for the enterprising non-hack to put together once they get off their fat asses and start doing their job. There are a ton of angles available off of this first training camp of the new regime. Unfortunately NYC does not have a single reporter who actually wants to work for a living. What they all want is to have guaranteed news spoonfed to them so they don't have to actually go out there and do some real REPORTING of what they see and hear. I am sick and tired of the lot of them. Editing to say: The reporters who can do nothing but whine about this stuff are going to be history in a year or two if this regime works out. They'll be replaced by people who can actually do the job.
Same. He's entitled to his idiodic opinion, but it really pisses me off that he writes it like he's speaking as the voice of Jets fans. I haven't heard any fans calling into radio stations or posting on message boards saying that they are really mad that they don't know what the depth chart is, or how sick a player is. Do they go overboard with some of the secrecy stuff? Of course, but nobody besides the media really cares. The media wants to know that Curtis Martin is seriously hurt and might never play again. Most of the fans realize they should hide that information so they don't seem as desperate when trying to make a trade. He trys to say that people will get tired of this if the team isn't winning. Bullshit. We will get tired of losing if the team isn't winning. Last year was horrible because the team was terrible and we won 4 games. Herm talking to the media a lot didn't make that season any easier. Wins and losses is all that matters.
The 2002 team was arguably was the least talented team in the league that year. As was the 2003 team. In 2002 and 2003 we had 6-7 defensive starters that would arguably not be able to mae an average NFL roster besides start. By 2004 we had time to rebuild the team a little on defense. I consider the team that started the 2004 season to be the most talented team we have had since 2000. Comparing our team this year to 2002 and 2003 is to easy we are better now than at almost every position. 2004 is much more of a close call. So comparing the 2006 team to the 2004 team looked like coming into the season position by position below is how I have us rated with upgrades and downgrades. Here is a position by position comparison between the 2004 and 2006 teams prior to the season starting. Keep in mind this is using a 4-3 vs 4-3 not to overcomplicate the comparison. Upgrades Defense: 1. Dyson over Abraham 2. Rhodes over Toungue 3. Coleman over the rookie Coleman 4. Vilma over Cowart 5. Barret over the Barret that started 2004 coming off a very bad 2003 season. 6. Hobson/Thomas over Hobson More experience and better player. 7. Robertson over Robertson Robertson came off a very disappointing 2003 season. Upgrades Offense 8. Coles over Moss 9. McCairens/Cotchery over McCareins Although McCareins While not coming off a good year he has much more experience and is more proven than the player who entered the 2004 season. 10. Ferguson over Fabini. Anyone over Fabini is an upgrade. His entire career he has been a walking turnstile. 11. Moore over Moore. While neither are good a 2 year bad veteran is better than a player coming into a season with no expereince. 12. Nugent over Brien 13. Graham over Gowin Tie. Barton vs Barton. Coming off a dissapointing 2003 season ve coming off a injury riddled 2005 season. Expections are not good for either season. Arguably we have higher expectations for Barton this year in 2004 but the difference is neglible. Downgrades 1. Ellis over Ellis 2. Ferguson over whoever is our NT 3. Abraham over whoever is our DE 4. Pennington over Pennington/Ramsey 5. Martin over Martin/Houston/Washington/Blaylock 6. Sowell over Askew 7. Becht over Baker and Jolley 8. Mawae over Mangold 9. Kendell over Kendell 10. McKenzie over Jones/Clements 13-10-1 We have more depth now than we have had in a long time and better starters. Both teams were very young but we have more talnted younger players now. The younger players we took a chance on in 2004 now have more experience. But like I said in previous post better talent doesn’t win games without good QB play. With a new system, question marks at QB and a new inexpereinced CS the odds are against us. But good QB play can solve a lot. In regards to saying Bradway and herm gutted the team thats absolutely ridicoulous. Parcells gutted this team. We were $28 millon over the cap in 2002 because of parcells and had to axe 5 starters because of Parcells. From 2002-2004 we signed no one. We had no meny to sign anyone all we could do was keep the team alive by letting our players go and not signing anyone but bargain basement long shot free agents. What Bradway did between 2001 and 2006 was to extend Parcells debt by extending player contracts and pushing that debt out until the next player CBA. Bradway certainly made mistakes in talent, trading (always seemed to be getting ripped off) and drafting but overall his drafting was not bad and far better than this organization has been used to. The problem Bradway had was Parcells debt which forced him to choose which Jets current players he could keep, and which talent he would have to let go and it gave him no options to sign new talent. Overall the organization is miles ahead now of where it was in 2001. We are much younger, have a stronger base and we are in a good cap situation. If you remember the reason Belichick did not want anything to do with the Jets job it was because the organization had no future because of the teams age and massive salary cap problems. You can blame Bradway for a lot of things but you have to give him credit for stewarding us through such an awful situation. Bradway could have very easily done what most GM's would have done overspend on enw players to keep his job and jeopardize the teams future. Rather he did the oppsoite and didn't spend except to resign enough players to give the team a chyance to remain competitive. Its very easy to go out and make blanket statements and engage in the mob mentaility that pervades these boards and said that everything connected with a former coach or GM is bad. But all you are doing is fooling yourself and lying to yourself. There are many good and bad thinsg about Edwards, Bradway, Tannebaum, and Mangini. Given your hate you will only see the negative in the people you hate and the posotive in your new savior. This happens on every board. In 2002 and 2003 Chad was god here and saying anything negative about him brought waves of critiscm. That has changed now almost to the reverse. The same thing to a lesser extent has happened to Edwards and Bradway here. It will soon enough happen to Tannenbaum and Mangini no matter how well they perform. Just for now the board we only accept positive glowing statements about our new GM and coach. It will be interesting to see how quickly that changes.
Wow, why would you even write an article like that. Point out your own inadequacies ah cry like a bitch. Mangini isn't my friend WAAAA!!! The last thing I would want to do is talk to a hot headed idiot like this. Nice tantrum. :rofl2:
That's all nice, but that really means nothing when evaluating a team. Many of those "upgrades" are debateable, and almost none of them have the effect that losing a Abraham, or not having a Curtis Martin in the best year of his career. QB is much weaker this year, unless Chad comes back and proves he's completely healthy. 2004 we had probably a top 3 running game. This year we could end up with the worst in the league, and will almost certainly be in the bottom 10. Receiving core is close. While I agree that Coles is a better fit for us than Moss, we still don't have any receiver that's a real vertical threat like Moss was. I'll call it a push. 2004 offensive line blows away this years line. Not even close. 2004 front seven blows beats this years front 7. That year we had a real nt in Ferguson, and an elite pass rusher in Abraham. This year not only do we not have the talent, but we are learning a brand new system. 2004 was a new system too, but this year is an actual formation change. We are better in the secondary this year by far. And we are better at kicker and punter. That's it. The 2004 and 2006 teams aren't even close imo.
You are looking at what happened in 2004 not what the outlook was coming in. Martin was coming off the two worst years of his career. Two years of constantly being injured. Pennington was not only coming off an injury but a terrible year where he threw 12 ints and had 8 fumbles in 9 games. The 2004 line was terrible. Fabini has been a walking turnstyle his entire career. In 2002, 2003, and 2004 the line has been completely unable to pass block. How many times during those years has Chad been actually able to have any time throwing in passing situations. The answer is almost never despite an offense that passes less thany team in the league except maybe Pittsburgh. Almost everytome Pennington has gone back to pass in passing situations he has been forced to dump of. The idea of a good line is an illusion preserved by an offense focused almost exclusively on running the ball.The point here is in 2004 almost every player was a huge question mark. This year many of our younger 2004 players are more experienced and better players. You can't compare the 2006 team before the season to what the 2004 team turned out to be but rather how both appeared in pre-season. Well you can, but its not a fair comparison and its like comparing apples to oranges. Look at this team now and compare it to what the team looked like coming into 2004 and you will see the outlook for the 2004 season was worse coming into the season than our outlook is this year. Compare this team at mid season to the 2004 team at mid season and we both may agree that the 2004 team was better at that point. Hopefully that will not be the case. But coming into the season is what we are talking about here not mid season form. Think about all the questions before the 2004 season. The list is almost endless. Barton coming off an absolutely terrible 2003 year with Oakland. Ellis and Robertson coming off abysmal years. Vilma and Coleman being untested rookies. Abrahamwas waiting on his social security checks. Barrett was an untested and unwanted free agent. Toungue was most likley shocked that he was still playing in the NFL. Moore was untested and taking over at guard. Martin and Pennington being huge question marks. McCairens becoming a starter for the first time in his career. There was a reason the 2004 team was supposed to be very bad and thats because almost every position had major doubts and flaws. The 2004 season had just about everything go right. If you compare where we are now vs where we were before the 2004 season started we are miles ahead. It might interest you to know that I don't attribute the 2004 success to good coaching. Rather I attribute the success in 2004 to dumb luck and very fortunate schedule. I believe the CS did a much better job of coaching in 2002 and 2003 than they did in 2004. Not that they did bad in 2004 but rather they were the beneficiaries of a very easy openning 5 game schedule that pumped a bad team full of confidence and helped set up the year. In other words I would take luck over good coaching every time and in 2004 we were the beneficiaries of a great deal of good fortune.
He can write what he wants, but he sounds like a writer who IS upset that the Jets have chosen this kind of public relation.
Well this is the email I just sent him. I think it's pretty good, tell me what you think. I hate this f ing guy!!!!!!!! What a little bitch!!!!!!! Hey Mike, I don't know if you will ever really receive this e-mail, nor do I think you will pay it any mind if you even do read it. However, on behalf of MOST New York Jets fans...just shut up. I never believed in resorting to name calling because I have always found it to be counterproductive and quite childish, but you really are an idiot! Before you speak on behalf of the Jets fans you might consider doing some real research, something usually expected of legitimate writers. For the first time in a long time, we finally have two individuals involved in this organization who truly know what it takes to build a winner. I'm sorry if your job hasn't been as easy now that Herm Edwards is no longer around to spoon feed you nonsensical garbage. Yes, he might have satisfied you by preaching to you all you wanted to hear without any hesitation, but if you were to ask any Jets fan (something you seem to feel you know a lot about), we couldn't wait for him to get out of town. Bottom line, we want to finally win. If you can't see that this current regime is offering "us", the Jets fans, the best possibility to do that then I question your knowledge about the Jets and their fans. In fact, I don't know if you've actually watched any the preseason games, however, Mangini and Tannenbaum's tenure here has already gotten off to an incredible start just by watching the performances of this past years draft class! If anything, I believe, as most Jets fans do, that they have already given us something special to look forward to for years to come! Finally, don't sit here and claim that you REALLY don't care that they won't give you any information. One thing Jets fans are not is stupid. Everybody can see right through you and your article. If anything, you sounded like a little child who can't get his way, but won't admit it. As I said in my opening on behalf of all Jets fans...JUST SHUT UP!!!!!!
Those are pretty numbers, and you did a good job of bending them in your favor, but they don't even tell half the story. None of the upgrades are monumental, meanwhile we've lost some key players who are much bigger losses. Going from McKenzie to Ferguson is a downgrade until he proves himself Mawae to Mangold, ditto Martin to ... Kevan Barlow??? Are you serious? Vilma over Cowart? Cowart played 2 games in 2004! Wash. Robertson had just as disappointing a 2005 season as he did in 2003, so that's another wash. Not to mention he has to deal with that bone-on-bone condition now. John Abraham to Kimo von Oelhoffen? Coleman had a mediocre 2005 season and he's recovering from a recent operation. How's that an upgrade over his rookie form? As for Hobson, how has he improved? Looks the same as he ever has to me. Alot of these so-called upgrades pale in comparison to the downgrades we've made. I'm sorry but going from Curtis Martin to Kevan Barlow is a much bigger hit than going from Reggie Tongue to Kerry Rhodes improves us. What depth?? Who's our backup DT? Hell, who's our starting DT?? Robertson? :rofl: You couldn't even identify him in your downgrades rundown! :lol: We have 2 rookies on the O-line, who's backing them up? We have NOBODY at RB other than the amazing Kevan Barlow, who the Niners ditched at the last second. Very encouraging. Ramsey, Bollinger and a rookie backing up Chad. That's depth? The only depth we have is in the secondary, and even then nobody really looks spectacular. We're in a good cap situation because we had to let go of starters, due to Bradway's mismanagement of the cap. You state that like Tannenbaum walked into a remarkable situation. You credit Bradway for handling Parcells' mess, but what about those insane contracts he gave out, which caused him to let all of our young talent walk out the door? I don't only see the bad, but obviously if there was more good than bad these guys would still be here. There's a reason why they were replaced, and that's because they were inadequate. Just because you don't like the guys who replaced them doesn't mean they did not deserve to be fired. And I am not hopping on the Mangini bandwagon "just because". They have not done anything to irk me yet, so I am supporting them. You seem to have had it out for them since day one. I'm sorry about that, but that's your problem. As for me, I'm going to support my team.
There is only one person who counts and that is Woody Johnson. If he could survive 5 years of Herm and Bradway, getting through a couple of rebuilding years with a stafff that is actually dedicated to football should be a piece of cake. Herm was a media tool and that's all he was. He took a SB ready team and ran them into the ground. winston, remember when we got flamed by the sheep for suggesting that herm and dumbway were not doing a good job?
hahaha very well said...I love how he makes sure everyone knows he doesnt care at all about the Jets. That is not the kind of writer i want writing articles on my team. He doesnt even care?
Here was my reply: Mike, Nobody cares if Messrs Mangini and Tannenbaum are making your job and that of your friends, more difficult. I should be concerned because you guys cant get a story? Cry me a river. We are not talking about the United States Government and the War? If the Jets are not forthcoming with information, I guess Ill just have to deal with that. All Jet fans care about is that the Jets win on Sunday. If reporters have to stare at a blank screen all week on their computers and cant meet deadlines -- and the Jets win -- that?s just the price we'll have to pay.
That's the line I have to give clients all the time. "Let's bankrupt the guy." "How about a lawyer's letter first?" "I want the house, the kids and 75% of the savings, along with 55% of all his future earnings." "How about a lawyer's letter first?"
