Kurt, You know what aggravates me ........... This Mangold is the only guy that has Pro-Bowl potential BS when it comes to the offensive line. Please people watch the play of the O-Line. Mangold has not played better than Brick this year. When will this nonsense stop? Mangold was way better than Brick last year, however news flash, this is 2007 and Brick is playing better than Mangold! They both have Pro Bowl potential. I am saying this because I watch the middle of the line. There has been a lot of pressure on Pennington and the RB's coming from the middle. Again, this maybe because Clarke is not very good and the compensation that has to take place. The fact remains is that there is too much breakdown in the middle of the line.
How many holes can they fix in 1 1/2 seasons? They had about 5 positions up for grabs on the O-line given the lack of young talent and depth and on the defensive side they had what maybe 2 spots that they thought would be a lock in the front 7. Out of the 12 positions that were open they had what 3 or 4 people slotted in that they could depend on? They had Ellis, Vilma, Barton and that is it. The rest of the LB's Hobson, Thomas and the other remaining DL Robertson were unproven commodities in the 3-4. Of course we would later find out that Vilma is not suited for the 3-4 while Thomas is perfect for it. On OL they had 5 positions up for grabs. Mawae was old as dirt and coming off a season ending injury. No only that he is a locker room lawyer. Ditto for Kendall with the exception he was not coming off an injury. Moore and Jones were Jag's and not too mention there was a glaring hole called an LT. SO to whit in 2006 when Mangini and Tannenbaum came in: DL: Ellis- Hole (Robertson was a ?) - Hole Hole( B. Thomas is good for the role)- Vilma ( discussed Ad-nauseum but not a percieved hole at the time)- Barton ( dependable but again coming off an injury)- Hole (Hobson not suited for OLB IMO) OL: Hole (Jones prior season YUCK)- Kendall (Again ? as to whether the FO/CS wanted his baggage)- Hole (Aging player that missed prior season and lockerroom laywer-Mawae)- Hole (Moore JAG) - Hole This FO/CS has brought in Ferguson, Mangold, Coleman, Harris which effectively eliminated 4 of the glaring holes. They filled in B. Thomas that eliminated another. So that is 5 of 8 holes filed with younger players. Robertson is seemingly a stop gap NT until they can find a Wilfork type make that 5 1/2. So they if they bring in another 1-2 O-lineman and the required OLB and NT and the front 7 and front 5 will be fine. This CS and FO is exactly where they should be given the weak draft class of 2007 and the horrid FA period of 07 as well. This team was in no shape or form going to be fixed personnel wise in 1 1/2 seasons. I think a reality check is in order. If the FO can continue the excellent draft record so far and improve a little bit in free agency (given what is available) this team will be much better off than where they are today. That is not even factoring in if KC can be a decent to good QB.
Ok, so let's turn this around and look at it from the other perspective: in two drafts and free agent periods what have they demonstrably improved to make the Jets a better team? Offense SE? Coles an excellent holdover from last regime. LT? Yes. D'Brick. LG? No. C? Yes. Mangold. RG? No. RT? No. TE? Baker an acceptable holdover from last regime. FL? Yes. Cotchery got his chance under Mangini. FB? No. HB? Yes. Washington and Jones a big upgrade. QB? No. Chad deteriorating and no apparent confidence in Clemens. K? Nugent an acceptable holdover from last regime. Defense LCB? Yes. Dyson and Revis an improvement over Barrett who was overmatched here. LOLB? No. SS? Rhodes an excellent holdover from last regime. LDE? No. LILB? No. NT? No. RILB? No. RDE? No. FS? No. ROLB? No. RCB? No. P? Graham an acceptable holdover from last regime. KR? Yes. Washington has picked up where Miller left off as a dominant KR. PR? No. Quality depth? No. the Jets have almost no quality depth on the roster beyond the RB position. WR has about as many good people as you need and virtually every other position is undermanned in terms of capable backups. The number of no's above is not what you would expect out of a rebuilding team that was agressively trying to position itself for a super bowl run two years out (2009.)
I think they knew the D-line was screwed this offseason, thats why they brought in so many D-lineman to compete for spots. Unfortunately the guys they brought in were busts or out of football completely. I'd really expect them to be major players in free agency next year, but I'm not sure anyone will want to come here. I think a lot hinges on the play of Kellen Clemens and how the team responds to the change down the stretch. That is, if Mangini ever decides to finally make the switch.
The guys they brought in to compete in training camp this season remind me a lot of the recruit class in the movie Police Academy. You know, the midget, the blind guy with a police dog leading him around, the guy with the severe speech impediment who can't say "hands up" in less than 3 minutes, by which time he's had to shoot the guy he has dead to rights, etc...
I agree with you, but I do think that the front office and the fans have have higher expectations for the lines then what is reality. I don't understand why anyone is surprised that we can't stop the run. The 3-4 does not work unless the nose tackle demands two blockers. I believe it's a four year process to turn over the majority of the roster and get players that fit the system you want. In 3 or 4 years any salary cap issues should be fixed and by then they should have plenty of cap room to spend some money on luxuries in free agency. If you look at the Pats, They drafted lineman after lineman, signed cheap veterans and lucked out with Brady. Once they had great lines on both sides of the ball and plenty of depth and were able to get into a good place with the salary cap they went out and got Maroney, A. Thomas, Welker, Stallworth, Morris, Brady and Moss. They didn't spend a ton of long term money but most of those guys are luxuries. But it takes 4+ years of drafting and utilizing free agency to have a team that is consistently competing every year. Unfortunately in the beginning of the process things can get ugly and since we went 10-6 last year expectations were completely off the charts and not in sync with the actual talent. On the offensive line Mangold and Brick are certainly keepers but the other three guys I don't believe are long term starters. Hopefully a year of learning and working with Bender he can be a starter. As much as I think Harris and Revis are studs I really wanted them to draft 2 lineman last year. My question at the time was whether the front office really felt the draft was that weak or if they were content with the offensive line going forward. I agree with trading up for Revis and Harris if they felt the draft was extremely week after the first 50 picks. As far as the defensive line, I like Coleman and Ellis but they are going to have to continue to find guys who are 6 4+ and 290+ at end to have depth. Nose tackle is the real issue and I can't fault them for not finding someone since no one was available. What they really need to do is find a guy in the draft who is 6 2 315-320 with a very wide build who can afford to gain weight. Wilfork was about 30 pounds thinner in college. And they also need to find a guy in free agency who can play the position, someone like kelly Gregg. Not sure how long he is signed for but while he doesn't have ideal size, he has ideal technique for the position. I do like Robertson I just don't think he has any position in a 3-4. They are paying him way too much so he needs to go. I would think that one of the small quick defenses (tampa, chicago, KC, Seattle) would love to have a guy like Robertson and could possibly bring back a 2nd or 3rd round pick. (Edit Gregg signed a long term deal this off season) In conclusion our record sucks but I'm extremely excited about where the organization is going. Hopefully Pennington and D-Rob can bring back some sort of mid round picks. Their contracts may prohibit trading them. This off season all of the focus has to be on finding offensive lineman, nose tackle, additional ends, a linebacker at weakside with some speed of the edge and finding another cornerback. While they can't solve all of these in one more offseason they are going to have to get a few of these positions filled.
CP has nothing to do with the defense creeping up. As you saw Penny threw the ball 43 yards in the air on stride to LC on Sun. So what is there left to blame? It is the playcalling. How the hell do you throw one ball for 43 yrds and a TD and then NEVER try it again? If BS tried to throw the ball 30+ yrds in the air per game we would not have that problem, period.
LMAO............... one word anomaly! anomaly Also found in: Computing, Medical, Wikipedia 0.02 sec. a?nom?a?ly (-nm-l) n. pl. a?nom?a?lies 1. Deviation or departure from the normal or common order, form, or rule. 2. One that is peculiar, irregular, abnormal, or difficult to classify: "Chad's arm is completely shot however he lucked out and threw a long Pass Sunday" Miamipuck. 3. Astronomy The angular deviation, as observed from the sun, of a planet from its perihelion.
Ok, so I went back and watched the throw and previously I did not see the bionic 'one throw' chip they installed in CPs are before that throw. Of course, now that the bionic chip expired he will never be able to throw more than 11 yards again. Give it a rest Miami, he is perfectly capable of throwing the ball 30-40 yrds in the air which is all that is needed to keep the defense honest. How freaking stupid is the play calling when you connect on a 43 yard bomb and then never try it again?
You are correct arguing with the delusional is pointless. If one throw in 4 games is enough to convince you it is even mostly playcalling this silliness is not worth my time.
I guess being so damn negative you have to go the negative route. Good job. You are correct this FO has done nothing. I find it quite hilarious that your opinion changed because you are all bent out of shape that they traded up twice. As another poster said ,"give it a rest already." I just do not see how the trading up was some personal affront to you. However I am sure it would make for a good read. FYP and made it more realistic. Amazing how overly negative you are. Your number of no's is absolutely ridiculous and just a reflection of how pissed you are after the draft this year. Please be more objective in the future.
LOL,Yeah I guess I should just give up and slit my wrists.................................... better yet, slit everyone else's wrists first.
Suggesting that the Jets are other than a bad team at this point with numerous holes on the defensive side is completely delusional. I prefer to post about the reality of the Jets instead of the fairyland NFL that some posters would rather dwell in. If it pisses you off then put me on ignore. I really don't care who reads the stuff I write and I certainly am not intending to piss anybody off.
Why put you on ignore? There are a lot of balanced posters that have respectable opinions that think this team is a lot closer to good than bad. They are not 15 players away as you would suggest. Give it a break. I do not have to give my opinion of where I think the Jets are at. You can look it up. I just happen to know you are not fair nor balanced in your opinion. It is your opinion however. Have at it. I am just going to say you are wrong. Edit: In no shape or form do you piss me off. I am fascinated by the overly negative.
That's fine. I caught a lot of heat when I registered at draft time in 2004 with the tag I carry. People thought I was an insane darksider for suggesting that Terry Bradway and Herm Edwards were extremely unlikely to take the Jets to a super bowl. I'm sure a lot of people were completely taken aback when I turned into one of the most optimistic posters last season with the new regime, which seemed to be making a lot of good moves. If you'll notice I generally pick the Jets to finish between 7 and 9 victories, although I picked them (accurately it turns out) to win 10 games in 2004 and then get knocked out by a stronger team. I have now been overly optimistic about the Jets chances in 2005 and 2007. That has to be rose-colored glasses about the team I've rooted for since 1971. I'm also very consistent in my views about how the Jets should rebuild because NFL history tells us that teams that stockpile picks and trade down a lot (Cowboys in late 80's/early 90's, Steelers generally, Chargers in 2001 to 2004) tend to produce amazing results in the process, whereas teams that trade draft picks away and trade up a lot (Saints in late 90's, Dolphins and Falcons in 2000's, San Diego in 1999) tend to collapse fairly quickly right afterwards. Reality based fandom is the refuge of an experienced fan who spent the first 10 years of watching the Jets convinced that everything was random and we were just plagued by bad luck. Now I know better and most of the time I know a collapse is imminent and why it likely happened. That's what I post. It's my little fortress of solitude that enables me to watch messes like 1995, 1996, 1999, 2003, 2005 and 2007 and not lose my affection for the Jets. It's not random, it's bad management.
Look I found you a very good poster when I first posted here. Among the better ones. I can care less about your name (it is 100% correct anyway and it is actually funny), It is just an internet tag. I happen to think is completely correct. He completely sucked as a GM. In fact I thought the Jets were so poorly ran those years it was depressing (both FO and CS). Anyway, I am still in amazement how this one draft so pissed you off. I know it did too. I think it is going to be a good one. In fact I like this FO's notion of Quality over Quantity, only for this one year because of the dearth of quality players. You have to admit that other than a few top picks this draft class looks rather sucky (Observation of the entire draft in general). Now I know we are not NE but look at how many of their picks this year remain with their team........ 2. I just can not see how you can do a complete 180 on your opinion. But such is life. Ok I will promise I will not unleash the hounds on any of your posts............ It was nothing personal.............. carry on. However I will politely say where I disagree. :wink: EDIT: You never pissed me off. There is a distinct difference between negative and retarded/ignorant.
Life always seems full of gray areas. I hate gray so I magnify it to black or white depending on how it augurs for the immediate future. It's a character flaw.
It is cool at least you know yours. People are constantly pointing out mine. My list is bigger than George Carlin's curse list............or so my girl and best friend keep telling me. :smile:
