Because I have the info handy, here are the kickers who were the consensus All-Pro selections since Adam Vinatieri entered the league- 1996- Cary Blanchard 1997- Richie Cunningham 1998- Gary Anderson 1999- Olindo Mare 2000- Matt Stover 2001- David Akers 2002- Adam Vinatieri 2003- Mike Vanderjagt 2004- Adam Vinatieri 2005- Neil Rackers 2006- Robbie Gould 2007- Rob Bironas 2008- Stephen Gostkowski 2009- Nate Kaeding 2010- Billy Cundiff
Good point. I was kind of talking more along the lines of "production" stats than "efficiency" stats, but I see what you're saying. My only point was that based on stats alone, Montana may or may not be a HOF quarterback. His legacy is more about 4 rings, never throwing an INT in a Super Bowl, etc. I checked Montana's career rankings in these categories. The "notables" I included are guys who rank higher than him in those categories. Some may be HOF worthy, some definitely aren't. Yards - He's currently 11th, but will likely be passed by Brady and Brees within the next two seasons. Notables: Testaverde, Bledsoe, Kerry Collins TDs - 10th. Just got passed by Brady and will at some point soon be passed by Brees. Notables: Testaverde, rest are possible HOFers or already there. QB Rating - 9th. Notables: Romo, Rivers Completion % - 11th. Notables: Pennington, Schaub Yds/Att - 22nd (T) Notables: Trent Green, Daunte Culpepper
The QB stats continue to rise. Montana played in a different era. There have been a number of changes to the sport that have allowed lesser QBs to put up better numbers than did Montana. Completion percentage is really crazy. It wasn't too long ago when if a QB completed 60% of his passes he was considered deadly accurate. Now 60% is mediocre.
Hester in going nowhere near the HOF with good reason. If he eventually makes it as a WR he may have a shot but I don't see that happening. Westhoff has been great for us but the odds of him getting into the hall are zero. Vinatieri has been a great kicker, especially making clutch kicks in big games. He has a shot but there are other kickers that aren't too far off from him. You are also forgetting punters and the gunners. If Steve Tasker doesn't get in does special teams even matter to the HOF voters? As for Vinatieri, he is only the 12th most accurate kicker of all time (three other guys are over 86%): Rank Player (age), + - HOFer, Bold - Active FG% Years Teams 1. Nate Kaeding (28) 86.500% 2004-2011 sdg 2. Mike Vanderjagt 86.466% 1998-2006 2TM 3. Robbie Gould (28) 86.070% 2005-2011 chi 4. Shayne Graham (33) 85.950% 2001-2010 5TM 5. Garrett Hartley (24) 85.714% 2008-2011 nor 6. Rob Bironas (32) 85.354% 2005-2011 oti 7. Stephen Gostkowski (26) 84.354% 2006-2011 nwe 8. Matt Stover 83.659% 1991-2009 3TM 9. Matt Bryant (35) 83.636% 2002-2011 5TM 10. Ryan Longwell (36) 83.412% 1997-2011 2TM 11. Phil Dawson (35) 83.175% 1999-2011 cle 12. Adam Vinatieri (38) 82.561% 1996-2011 2TM
A team game with the goal to win a SB. Impact on winning the ultimate game and making plays to get the ultimate prize should be a big consideration. To many compilers get in who aren't really huge impact players. Marino who never won a SB obviously was a huge impact player. Terrell Davis who won 2 SB was arguably the best player in football the 2 years his team won SB and hugely impacted their wins. I think a guy like Ken Stabler not being in and Warren Moon being shows a huge bias toward stat compiling over real impact.
How do you have two accounts and why was your old account removed from the members section? Your former winstonbiggs account actually still exists, however.
The NFL Hall of Fame selection process is flawed because it has too few selectors and the crowd tends to inbreed as a result. There are more than 200 electors who have input into the professional baseball hall of fame process. There are 44 electors for the NFL hall of fame. Inevitably an electorate that is that small creates bias in the selection process, as a few very influential electors sway the opinion of others and voting blocs form in the selection process. As to who meets the criteria for hall of fame selection if it is based largely on having to use the person's name in conversations about the era then Jerome Bettis does and Curtis Martin does not. This is an unfortunate by product of the fact the Bettis played for the most influential franchise in NFL history and he played a position that has typically been associated with the success of that franchise. It's also a result of such a system wildly over promoting players who over promote themselves and punishing players who just do their jobs quietly and efficiently. The better question to ask is whether the hall of fame is for the greats or the very goods. Under the definition of being there for the greats neither Bettis nor Martin qualify. Under the defintion of being there for the very goods both do.
Hey Biggs, I think this winstonbiggs guy is right up your alley. You guys should like hang out and shit.
